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Slowing The Ai In 67's


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#21 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Dec 13 2018 - 11:09 AM

I couldn't get passed your ignorant comments about hunters. So, i'll just ignore the rest.

#22 orlinos

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Posted Dec 13 2018 - 11:43 AM

Something to calm the nerves. My bloopers at Silverstone!  :hithead:

https://youtu.be/0oY6GV3fO48

#23 gliebzeit

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Posted Dec 13 2018 - 12:03 PM

orlinos, that's the spirit !!!  :nervsmile:

Tato and Pete, try a little bit more Holiday cheers, guys.  :drunk:

#24 Tato

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Posted Dec 13 2018 - 12:36 PM

View Postorlinos, on Dec 13 2018 - 11:43 AM, said:

Something to calm the nerves. My bloopers at Silverstone!  :hithead:

https://youtu.be/0oY6GV3fO48

Great driving man! :bravo: :up: :lol2:

I'm in the club too! :D

View Postgliebzeit, on Dec 13 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

orlinos, that's the spirit !!!  :nervsmile:

Tato and Pete, try a little bit more Holiday cheers, guys.  :drunk:

Sorry Greg. I admit I was unpolite, and I want to apologize.
But is even useless to say this is a technical thread, all the people tried to help twinpotter with advices and personal experiences, but no one thought to be better or more clever. All except one, that introduced inopportune and off topic subject, with undercurrent offences and bad taste. This is the kind of things I can't pospone or trying to pretend I don't see them, sorry. What he answered in a very childish way, without any objective argument or proper thesis in order to refute and disprove what I affirmed, surely is not a proof but at least a clue about an inopportune trolling attitude.

#25 twinpotter

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Posted Dec 13 2018 - 01:20 PM

My original thread, had the intention of trying to help me, to be competitive and to help me enjoy the game more. I have never been a fast driver and never will be and I have never altered any file in the process. To improve my performance and increase my enjoyment.  I just feel now that it is the right time to do that. Because I love this game, want to be in the mix and in the centre of nostalgic racing. I'm so glad I discovered this game, way back in the day and more importantly, that the game and the community is still going strong.

With that I have tried and tried flawelesly, to compete against the AI. Because I wanted, not only the challenge, but the chance to say yes, I've tried and therefore nearly been successful. Trying to Achieve this, by spending hours on practice, hours in racing and learning everything about setups. Putting those setups on my car, to help make me to be competitive. That said, this gave me a slight improvement, but still gave me the frustration and the languish of been at the back of the field. I know the challenge, is part of the gpl game, which gives great reward when running up front, in the middle of the pack or even stepping onto the podium. So I applaud those people (aka Pete) that can achieve and experience that.  It's just my overall frustration, of setting off, from the start,with heavy fuel load and cold tyres, pussy footing around and into the first corner, because of instability. With either been pushed from behind and into the corner, during slow down, or the AI cars overtaking me, going in front leaps ahead, pulling away from me and never to been seen again. Until I'm lapped under a blue flag.

I would like to know, was GPL originally made for more online racing (human V human) Rather than human against the AI. Is it easier online (never tried or appealed to me) or is it a similiar challenge and down to the drivers natural ability.

Thank you everyone, for your input, thoughts and helping hand. Regarding the file adjustments. Hopefully it will help my frustration, increase the enjoyment and help me to rise to the challenge of this truly wonderful game.

TP: 👍

Edited by twinpotter, Dec 13 2018 - 01:56 PM.


#26 John Woods

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Posted Dec 13 2018 - 02:57 PM

Grand Prix Legends was originally made with "Global Hype Scaling" that does two things.
1. Over a period of several sessions, the Ai are slowly adjusted as your lap times improve to place you, eventually, in the middle of the pack no matter how fast/quick you get.
2. Provide a means of user editing in track.ini file that modifies Ai speed.

At first, when just beginning to use GPL, most drivers are not fast enough to keep up with the back of the pack. So the first thing a new driver needs to do is figure out how to stay in last place...in other words, actually learn some basic fundamental stuff about what race drivers do and how they do it, and to demonstrate the minimum competency required to play the game and qualify within 107% of the pole position on any track, (a typical real life requirement).

Or like most real race drivers, just go out and thrash some cars around until things start making sense.
Hurray for shift-R!

In the meantime, the reason there is so much info about tweaking Ai is so you can do whatever you want.
Why else would Lee write the AI Tutorial?

Pretty sure anyone is welcome to join on-line open practice sessions, (once they read Recommended Driving Behavior and Jimmy Bo etc), and by chance of good timing, if someone else is there, get to run some laps with real drivers who are often encouraging and helpful when newcomers join the fun. Definitely recommend it.


In the long run, or when the pressure is on, practiced skill beats natural ability every time.
Bet on it.
:D

Edited by John Woods, Dec 14 2018 - 07:41 AM.


#27 JonnyA

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Posted Dec 14 2018 - 06:57 AM

As an example of how I do it -

Using the appropriate Historic V2 carset, after a couple of hours in Training mode at Spa '67 I managed a best lap of 3:24.4 driving the Lotus 49. This was a bit of a one-off but I'd got badly sideways through Masta and reckoned that with a clean lap on low fuel I could just about nudge 3:23 dead. So I played with the AI speeds a bit until Jim was doing that pace for pole, with the rest of the field suitably strung out behind him. The I went into practice for an 11-lap race but only improved to 3:24.1. I'd hit traffic on one good lap and messed up a couple of others, meaning I'm now second on the grid for the race. So I feel I'm starting about where I deserve, and will have a job on my hands trying to hang onto Jim for the race.

#28 Roger_F

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Posted Jan 19 2019 - 08:58 PM

Learned contributors,

In an effort to make the1967 basic game a more drivable car set I set about applying 1967 Historic stage 4 Mod physics to the basic 1967 package.  I copied the Historic level 4 files from the Mod / Gpl part of the Historic Mod to the equivalent section in the 1967 basic files.  I then added the 67 basic game to my GEM + and added a car set with 67 Historic level 4 physics.  I reasoned that level 4 would approximate mid year 1967 and be representative of average 1967 F1 performance.  My basic 1967 game had been previously taken out of GEM + due to lack of use.

Long story short I now had new 1967 Historic Physics in my basic 1967 game package.  The cars were much easier to drive and to my suprise now controlled by AI settings in GEM +; I am also running 60FPS and a full 1080P graphics display if either of those items somehow makes a difference.

My question is: How / Why is GEM able to adjust AI speeds in the basic 1967 package?  The beginning of this thread seems to say that that is not possible.  Is the Historic 1967 level 4 physics changing the rules or is something else happening?

I like being pleasantly surprised but my curiosity is getting the better of me; can somebody explain what is happening?

Thanks in advance ... Roger

#29 TvO

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Posted Jan 20 2019 - 03:20 AM

Every mod uses a specific gpl_ai.ini file for ai performance. It is specified in the .cst (carset) file that GEM+ uses.

The original 67s are different. With the 1.3 patch came all the enhancements that the mods have, more track support, long track support, race specific driver line up etc. However instead of using a .cst these features are somehow 'baked' into GEM+ so you don't have to select the carset. At one point a decision was made to leave the original files alone and use new files specific to the 1.3 patch (although just copies of the original). So the 1.3 patch uses gpla_c67.ini instead of gpl_ai.ini . Not a problem, but in the carset entry the original file name entry remained. Long story short, every time you try to tweak the AI speed, GEM+ modifies the wrong file.

Tommie

#30 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Feb 05 2019 - 09:57 AM

I need to bring this up again because I didn't explain myself as I should have.

First, let me say that I don't consider myself as a natural fast driver. Actually, I don't consider myself as fast at all. A lot of guys are way faster than me. I had to work hard for every tenth of a second I gained.

So, with that in mind. If someone slows down the AI to the point they can beat them. Where is there to go after that. There's no incentive to get faster. There's no goal left. Slowing down the AI is a good training tool but it needs to be used right. Slow them down so you're mid pack.  That way you'll have someone to race with but you still need to work hard to get faster. Beating Jimmy should be the last goal and you may never reach that goal. So what? Just think of the real drivers who never beat him. Slowing down the AI so much that you can beat Jimmy is not helping you to reach your potential.

There's nothing wrong with running mid pack. This is Formula One and you're racing against World Champions. You're simulating where you'd be if you were a driver in 1967. Don't make the whole sim accurate and then throw out accuracy with your talent. Don't accept being slower than what you could be by slowing the AI too much. Keep working harder to get faster. The real drivers couldn't all win races but they kept trying to get faster. You can do the same thing.

I've been racing Jimmy for 19 years and it's a rare day that I beat him. When I do it's at tracks that I think his speed is set too low. Like Silverstone as an example. At other tracks, he's still untouchable for me. I still try my best to beat him. I wouldn't feel good to slow him down to get a win but that's me.

I don't know if this explained myself any better but it's all i've got.

#31 JonnyA

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Posted Feb 05 2019 - 01:47 PM

When I start winning races I make the AI faster again. But knowing I have that chance to win - only if I drive my best - gives me the buzz I love.

#32 221teddy

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Posted Mar 28 2019 - 03:55 PM

Hi everybody,
I came back to GPL after allmost 13 years. I am completely addicted to this "old" sim since the community provides such sophisticated addons, the graphics of this now 20 years old sim look so beautiful, the car physics seem to be realistic, and the atmosphere of the game in its current shape ist fantastic. Unfortunately I am not the fastest driver and therefore at the beginning I was fixed to the slower mods like the 65mod or the formula 2 mod just to learn something about the influence of the different setup settings onto the physical behaviour of the cars. Now I am driving mostly the faster mods like the 66mod or the more challanging original 67mod (my favorite mod).

Since I am not able to keep up with the faster drivers like Jim Clark or Jack Brabham I am also interestet to adapt the ai speed to my personal needs. As Twinpotter mentioned at the very beginning of this post the ai cannot be adjustet in the original GPL 67mod by GEM+. In all other mods the GEM+ is the most convenient way to slow down or speed up the ai (I like especially the original Papyrus ai's and Pavel's ai's for some addon tracks). Since I am not interested to go to deep into the details of ai programming - I want to drive - I looked for another possibility to influence the ai by using the 67 physics and I found a solution which fits perfrectly to my needs. Therefore I am writing my first post in the srmz forums because my solution could be of interest also for other drivers:

Several weeks ago I found the beautiful Tasman carsets by Keido available in one of the older srmz forums. In principal these are only carsets using copys of the 65mod and 67mod physics but they are organized in the GPL system like real mods in their own folders with their own GPL.exe files and so on. And for that reason GEM+ recognizes these carsets as individual mods. Using the the Tasman 67 and 68 carset/mod (both based on the 67physics) the ai can be adapted by applying the GEM+ tool as for all other mods. That means you have the same driving physics and you can use the same setups as for the original Papyrus 67mod but you have other skins representing the cars of the Tasman racing series: the BT11, the BT23, the Lola, Ferrari 246T, Lotus 49T, Lotus 39, and so on. The quality of the textures is good (but not high resolution) comparable to the f2 mod.

So using the Tasman carsets 67 and 68 is a convenient way to slow down or speed up the ai while using the original 67mod physics.

#33 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Mar 29 2019 - 01:35 PM

You can slow down the original Papy 67 F1 cars easily. You just can't do it in GEM. You can still use GEM after setting the AI out of GEM.

You also have the option of using the Historical V2 mod for the 67 F1 cars and then you can use GEM to slow the AI.




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