Jump to content


- - - - -

Id This ...


  • Please log in to reply
45 replies to this topic

#31 Transit

Transit

    Denny Hulme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 153 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Zealand
  • Interests:Photography
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jan 07 2018 - 05:43 PM

View PostLord, on Jan 07 2018 - 01:22 PM, said:

....
... your reference pics of the 2509 are really great!....
cheers
I sort of didn't concentrate on a better series of it, just kept circulating the museum and kept returning to it

Posted Image

Edited by Transit, Jan 07 2018 - 05:46 PM.


#32 ginetto

ginetto

    GPL track editor

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,801 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lombardia, Italia
  • Interests:Mountain
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jan 07 2018 - 05:56 PM

Nice pics guys! :cool:

Lord, I believe the Lancia logo you used is a more modern one; back then it was slightly different :)

#33 Lord

Lord

    Mr. Broken Gearbox

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 175 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Latina, Italy
  • Interests:Formula 1, Football (Soccer), Grand Prix Legends and rFactor
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jan 08 2018 - 02:47 AM

View PostTransit, on Jan 07 2018 - 05:43 PM, said:

View PostLord, on Jan 07 2018 - 01:22 PM, said:

....
... your reference pics of the 2509 are really great!....
cheers
I sort of didn't concentrate on a better series of it, just kept circulating the museum and kept returning to it

Posted Image

"Talk of the Devil..." :D
I was really going mad for a clear pic of both the '55 steering wheel and dashboard! Even though it's reported that the works cars had a clear steel dash, the gauge positioning was more or less the same, thank you for the pic! :D

View Postginetto, on Jan 07 2018 - 05:56 PM, said:

Nice pics guys! :cool:

Lord, I believe the Lancia logo you used is a more modern one; back then it was slightly different :)

Grazie, Sor Ginetto! :D
I'd love to rework them and put the models in the '55 mod for GPL, giving back to all of you some of what I learned, I just don't know how to do it ^^;

The Lancia logo? Mh... I used the version from "Museo del Marchio Italiano", where all variations are listed: http://www.museodelm...rchi/lancia.php .
Well, not really that one, but it was a good "roadmap" to check for the proper D50A one. Funnily enough, it came from a good pic on Google and a cross-check with a '54 Lancia Aurelia :)

Edited by Lord, Jan 08 2018 - 03:06 AM.


#34 Luigi 70

Luigi 70

    Chris Amon

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 36 posts

Posted Jan 08 2018 - 02:04 PM

I wanted to put my Lancia D50 in GPL too... :huh:
Posted Image
but apparently it's very difficult ... :(
so I'm satisfy (so to speak) of the excellent work of the mod team :D

Edited by Luigi 70, Jan 09 2018 - 04:25 AM.


#35 Stefan Roess

Stefan Roess

    Denny Hulme

  • GPLLinks Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,891 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bavaria, Germany
  • Interests:racing :)
  • Sim interest:GPL and P&G

Posted Jan 09 2018 - 02:39 AM

View PostLord, on Jan 07 2018 - 01:22 PM, said:

Basically, Porsche amicably got wind of the mod I was making (the 1958 one for rFactor) and while we had a good chat about it (I was talking with a PR representative over mail) they praised the quality of the models and the details, especially of the 718RSK, but they told me that the car couldn't be in the mod even in a "mockup" (like Coventry or Murasama *wink wink* ) state because of company policy. I've told them that I wasn't going to make any cash out of it because the cars aren't "mine" as far as the design and likenesses go, they appreciated the honesty and the ethics, but still the policy stood.

BUT they told me that, in case another mod with a Porsche should be made, just call Stuttgart and present them the work done up to that point: the new upper spheres at Volkswagen want to reverse the modding policy because they see it as free advertising as good as it's made well, but that is taking some time because of some resistance in the Porsche's Board of Directors.

So, after all of this, I decided to make up for it with a couple of new cars as an "Addendum" to the mod both because it's not fair to have less content because of technicalities and also because I personally love those cars

Oh, and about your model... completely scratch built? If it weren't for the build log, I wouldn't have believed you at all! The milling and woodwork is gorgeous!

@ Transit apologies from me too, didn't mean to co-derail the topic. However, your reference pics of the 2509 are really great! I'll see if I can dig something more from Doug Nye's books

Well, luckily we do only have two Porsche so far in GPL mods (GT and Can-Am 71).

I am surprised that even a "mockup" (like Coventry or Murasama) would not be ok for them. :(

When did you have contact to them? In 2017?

Edited by Stefan Roess, Jan 09 2018 - 02:41 AM.


#36 Lord

Lord

    Mr. Broken Gearbox

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 175 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Latina, Italy
  • Interests:Formula 1, Football (Soccer), Grand Prix Legends and rFactor
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jan 09 2018 - 03:23 AM

View PostStefan Roess, on Jan 09 2018 - 02:39 AM, said:

View PostLord, on Jan 07 2018 - 01:22 PM, said:

Basically, Porsche amicably got wind of the mod I was making (the 1958 one for rFactor) and while we had a good chat about it (I was talking with a PR representative over mail) they praised the quality of the models and the details, especially of the 718RSK, but they told me that the car couldn't be in the mod even in a "mockup" (like Coventry or Murasama *wink wink* ) state because of company policy. I've told them that I wasn't going to make any cash out of it because the cars aren't "mine" as far as the design and likenesses go, they appreciated the honesty and the ethics, but still the policy stood.

BUT they told me that, in case another mod with a Porsche should be made, just call Stuttgart and present them the work done up to that point: the new upper spheres at Volkswagen want to reverse the modding policy because they see it as free advertising as good as it's made well, but that is taking some time because of some resistance in the Porsche's Board of Directors.

So, after all of this, I decided to make up for it with a couple of new cars as an "Addendum" to the mod both because it's not fair to have less content because of technicalities and also because I personally love those cars

Oh, and about your model... completely scratch built? If it weren't for the build log, I wouldn't have believed you at all! The milling and woodwork is gorgeous!

@ Transit apologies from me too, didn't mean to co-derail the topic. However, your reference pics of the 2509 are really great! I'll see if I can dig something more from Doug Nye's books

Well, luckily we do only have two Porsche so far in GPL mods (GT and Can-Am 71).

I am surprised that even a "mockup" (like Coventry or Murasama) would not be ok for them. :(

When did you have contact to them? In 2017?

June to July '17. Sadly I can't show you the mail because it was on my gmail account and I forgot (DUMBASS!) to back them up into my new one on Outlook. I still owe Bo a beer for helping me out with the SRMZ/SpeedGeezers accounts ^^;

#37 Stefan Roess

Stefan Roess

    Denny Hulme

  • GPLLinks Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,891 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bavaria, Germany
  • Interests:racing :)
  • Sim interest:GPL and P&G

Posted Jan 09 2018 - 03:49 AM

View PostLord, on Jan 09 2018 - 03:23 AM, said:

June to July '17. Sadly I can't show you the mail because it was on my gmail account and I forgot (DUMBASS!) to back them up into my new one on Outlook.

Thx for the info!
No good news for future GPL Porsche car(s)... :rolleyes:

#38 Luigi 70

Luigi 70

    Chris Amon

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 36 posts

Posted Jan 09 2018 - 04:28 AM

it is a pity that such a beautiful car can not be inserted into a mod... :(
Posted Image

#39 Luigi 70

Luigi 70

    Chris Amon

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 36 posts

Posted Jan 09 2018 - 06:25 AM

However considering the thousands of Porsche already released in the race simulation games (including my 718 & 804),
https://www.google.i...iw=1024&bih=681
it seems strange that the Porsche has not yet taken action ... :huh:

Finally, it is normal that if we ask the approval of Ferrari or Maserati (or any other constructor) to release one of their models, I do not think they give us their blessing :lol1:

Edited by Luigi 70, Jan 09 2018 - 06:28 AM.


#40 Lee200

Lee200

    Denny Hulme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,476 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jan 09 2018 - 08:34 AM

I don't understand why Porsche would complain about Lord's model for rFactor if there are already numerous Porsche models available for the sim.

Good to hear that Porsche is considering relaxing their stringent policy on sim modeling though.  It certainly is good, free advertising for the brand.

Edited by Lee200, Jan 09 2018 - 08:43 AM.


#41 Stefan Roess

Stefan Roess

    Denny Hulme

  • GPLLinks Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,891 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bavaria, Germany
  • Interests:racing :)
  • Sim interest:GPL and P&G

Posted Jan 09 2018 - 08:36 AM

View PostLuigi 70, on Jan 09 2018 - 06:25 AM, said:

However considering the thousands of Porsche already released in the race simulation games (including my 718 & 804),
https://www.google.i...iw=1024&bih=681
it seems strange that the Porsche has not yet taken action ... :huh:

From 2012: Endurance Porsche Cup Series – Released Called Off
http://www.virtualr....ased-called-off

#42 Luigi 70

Luigi 70

    Chris Amon

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 36 posts

Posted Jan 09 2018 - 08:50 AM

it's a war that is lost at the start...
http://www.enduracer...eadme_cars.html

with 4 different Porsche's models...

and how will they do with the thousands of models already circulating on the internet ??? ...

Will they force us to delete them in our PC ???.

That they think of other importants things...
modding is black water is not petroleum ....
.

Edited by Luigi 70, Jan 09 2018 - 08:58 AM.


#43 Lord

Lord

    Mr. Broken Gearbox

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 175 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Latina, Italy
  • Interests:Formula 1, Football (Soccer), Grand Prix Legends and rFactor
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jan 09 2018 - 11:49 AM

Luigi, I'll give you what I remember the PR spokeperson saying to me in the mailing. All in all, you can see where they're coming from...

"Let's assume you own a big Car Company, which prides itself in its cars. Your Engineers' cars are world-known and are almost sinonym with what your Country can do best when excellence is nurtured.
Now, let's assume a big Game Company asks us to license the cars to them to make a game and they're willing to put up with your fees, as high may those be.
Now, let's assume the same car is made by a modder using nonthing more than his/her skills, time and available info, coming maybe to a product that can almost outclass the one we licensed.

Wouldn't you do everything in your power to shut it down?"

At that, I answered back:

"If I were you, I wouldn't: rather, I would ask the modder to - at the very least - postpone the release date by six months to not cross each other. Also, I'd ask to use this delay to come to an arrangement in revenue if the mod is under a paywall, since it wouldn't be fair for me to let him/her profit from a design that isn't property of the modder alone. For actual assets like 3D models, textures, sounds and such, I wouldn't let anyone touch them since it's another Company's work.

Most modders online are genuinely really respectable people that do what they do out of a genuine love for cars. At least this is what I got from the years being in the very same circle of people: apart from some bad apples (for example those who outright steal models from commercial games and make a profit out of it) almost everyone else releases their works for free and to the highest possible standard they're able to achieve.
Not to name any names, but there a handful of gentlemen I know whose works wouldn't be out of place in a high-end commercial endeavour."

He (or she, I don't remember well) basically agreed with me on principle, but Porsche's Policy is what it is and couldn't be changed unless Porsche was willing to accept VW's input. Essentially the rest of the mod isn't their concern, I can release it, but not with a Porsche (or simil-Porsche).

#44 Luigi 70

Luigi 70

    Chris Amon

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 36 posts

Posted Jan 09 2018 - 12:02 PM

so let me understand, apart from the denial of the Porsche, for the 1958 rfactor mod, you have obtained permission to use from the manufacturers (or who owns the brand) for these models :shock: :
BRM (P25 model)
Connaught (type B model)
Cooper (T43 & T44 & T45 models)
Ferrari (D246 model)
Lotus (type 12 and 16 model)
Maserati (250F model)
OSCA (F2 model)
Vanwall (VW 5 model)
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

PS: Ciao Gabriele, scrivo in inglese per gli altri ;)  :wave:

#45 Lord

Lord

    Mr. Broken Gearbox

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 175 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Latina, Italy
  • Interests:Formula 1, Football (Soccer), Grand Prix Legends and rFactor
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jan 09 2018 - 12:32 PM

View PostLuigi 70, on Jan 09 2018 - 12:02 PM, said:

so let me understand, apart from the denial of the Porsche, for the 1958 rfactor mod, you have obtained permission to use from the manufacturers (or who owns the brand) for these models :shock: :
BRM (P25 model)
Connaught (type B model)
Cooper (T43 & T44 & T45 models)
Ferrari (D246 model)
Lotus (type 12 and 16 model)
Maserati (250F model)
OSCA (F2 model)
Vanwall (VW 5 model)
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

PS: Ciao Gabriele, scrivo in inglese per gli altri ;)  :wave:

(Non ti preoccupare ;) )

Well... not really a "permission" per se, but a loophole in European and Italian Copyright Laws: as long as I'm not asking cash to let use the work (as in "no donations, no payware, no income from it") and I'm not faking ownership of the car's design and likenesses, logos and the like, I can basically do whatever I please. Obviously there are some limits like:

1. fully credit the sources I got the infos from,
2. fully relinquish the copyright of the cars to their respective owners and claiming only the work done on the 3D model,
3. make a huge legal copy explaining that I've abided to every Law on the matter.

I'm not joking, the legal copy has to be made for the US DMCA also. Is it coming into focus how long in total this copy has to be? ^^;

Why I'm not doing it for Porsche also?
Well, that would be like dressing a Mercedes track attire, going all around Maranello and showing your ass in front of the Scuderia. The aftermath won't be pleasant ^^;




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Sim Racing Links