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looking for cockpit/gauges photos, all cars '65-'69


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#31 sky

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Posted Jun 30 2009 - 03:24 PM

View PostMECH, on Jun 29 2009, 08:18 PM, said:

I've seen a simple solution for that in the sportscar mod using an external 3do call for a simple flat structure that is overlayed on the dashboard structure. By using transparency in the used mip you create a shade. You can get away with that because it is a single viewpoint and won't cause any clipping.
However i think that this was only used for shading the front dash and not the seems between sidepanels and dash.
But it might work the same in this case, just needs a bit fiddling to get it right  :dont_mention:

Why they just didn't use a single or more polygon('s) with a positioner isn't totally clear atm.
Probably because it doesn't involve hexediting, not sure though.

that's an interesting idea. i have been thinking about using a single big texture for everything at once, but then decided against it, as i think it wouldn't work with different fov settings. that's an area i have only tested once before. if you go to fov's of 85 and over it will look :S. but then if you do it like you said using a it just as an overlay for the areas where the two textures overlap.. that's brilliant indeed. i will have to test it. the fiddling is cool with me. i do that most of the time to get stuff right.

there's another thing there though. it might be a winmip issue or i'm doing something rather wrong. not sure yet. but whenever i try and use a 16c transparency map, my textures get colourbanded exporting them with winmip. this has happened with the steering wheel many a time and i don't know what i do wrong. i've tried resampling the textures down to 240 colours, then 16 colours for the transparency map, put them together via winmip and blast, colours banded again.  :confused:
this mostly happens with lots of colors in the same general colour area, like gray / black or green for trees.

i had even tried exporting an already existing texture to .bmp, then reimporting it to .mip and back to .bmp - looks different.. wt..? using winmip 2.17

anyway, i'm going to give the overlay idea a spin this weekend if i have the some time then

#32 MECH

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Posted Jul 01 2009 - 12:42 PM

View Postsky, on Jun 30 2009, 11:24 PM, said:

there's another thing there though. it might be a winmip issue or i'm doing something rather wrong. not sure yet. but whenever i try and use a 16c transparency map, my textures get colourbanded exporting them with winmip. this has happened with the steering wheel many a time and i don't know what i do wrong. i've tried resampling the textures down to 240 colours, then 16 colours for the transparency map, put them together via winmip and blast, colours banded again.  :confused:
this mostly happens with lots of colors in the same general colour area, like gray / black or green for trees.

i had even tried exporting an already existing texture to .bmp, then reimporting it to .mip and back to .bmp - looks different.. wt..? using winmip 2.17

anyway, i'm going to give the overlay idea a spin this weekend if i have the some time then

I normally save the _ti.bmp in photoshop as grey color values and set it to 8-bits. Once saving as bitmap i switch to 4-bits. Don't know why i can change that only there but it seems to work. The main bitmap i save as 24-bits color (winmip2 can't handle 32-bits atleast the version i have, v2vb16...2.17?? were did you get that one?) By reducing the darkness of the _ti i change the opacity of glass sections and change the shades of blue, red or green by using lighter colors for the main bitmap.

But i have to admit that the mip specs are a bit fuzzy to me. I never bothered much since i'm not doing much work on skins.

Btw, if you are resaving a mip make sure you delete the old one. Winmip seems to use the values for the replaced mip in the new one. This can set you of a bit if you don't know were it's coming from  ;)

#33 sky

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Posted Jul 01 2009 - 02:41 PM

View PostMECH, on Jul 1 2009, 08:42 PM, said:

I normally save the _ti.bmp in photoshop as grey color values and set it to 8-bits. Once saving as bitmap i switch to 4-bits. Don't know why i can change that only there but it seems to work. The main bitmap i save as 24-bits color (winmip2 can't handle 32-bits atleast the version i have, v2vb16...2.17?? were did you get that one?) By reducing the darkness of the _ti i change the opacity of glass sections and change the shades of blue, red or green by using lighter colors for the main bitmap.

But i have to admit that the mip specs are a bit fuzzy to me. I never bothered much since i'm not doing much work on skins.

Btw, if you are resaving a mip make sure you delete the old one. Winmip seems to use the values for the replaced mip in the new one. This can set you of a bit if you don't know were it's coming from  ;)


actually it's 2.16.6 according to the about window - misleading filename i had, i guess. where i got that, i don't really remember. i just trawled through my drives to find it.

anyway. my normal procedure - until i noticed the banding issue was to simply use rgb 24bits and save them as .bmp in photoshop. nowadays i do the following with every texture - even though it seems a great shame considering i go from 24 to 8bit.
1. do the texture until i'm more or less satisfied.
2. flatten the image
3. convert it to indexed colours 256c, perceptive master (?), noise
4. convert it back to rgb (shouldn't do jack to the actual colours)
5. save as 24bit .bmp
6. winmip it

for transparency maps i do 1 and 2, 5 and 6 as above
3. convert to indexed colours 16c, perceptive master(?), noise
4. convert back to rgb

i found that when i try to export 32bits (alpha and standard 8bit for r,g,B) - winmip will refuse to load the .bmp
i also found that converting the _ti to indexed colours and saving it as 8bit will also result in winmip refusing to load the .bmp.

that leaves me rather wanting. i mean, i should have 16bits available regarding colourspace, yet i keep ending up with 8bits and even less than that as shown by the banding. i mean, i don't know much about the .mip format, how it is structured and all. but looking at the filesize i'd hazard a guess that it is pretty much like a .raw (.bmp) image. one plane for each colour, one after each other (r,g,B) and probably a general header at the very beginning of the file including info on how many mips are stored, sizes of those mips and maybe offsets for each mip in the file (although that could be calculated by the size of the mip plus some info on the general type mit and a transparency palette or single color... it could be just a variant of .bmp or something like the .dds format for all i know.

that winmip saving over an old one issue is news to me, but unless i'm in a real hurry to try something out i usually create new filenames while saving in ps already.. which keeps ending up in a huge load of versions

it's a shame, as i think we're wasting a bit of the potential of the fileformat here. especially with petteri thinking we might be able to do the full monty, 32bit .mips

#34 MECH

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Posted Jul 02 2009 - 12:49 PM

View Postsky, on Jul 1 2009, 10:41 PM, said:

it's a shame, as i think we're wasting a bit of the potential of the fileformat here. especially with petteri thinking we might be able to do the full monty, 32bit .mips

Have a look in this forum for Papybmp iirc it can create mips type 7 (32-bits)
And if i'm not mistaken Nigel's v2 rasterizers can handle them too.

#35 sky

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Posted Jul 05 2009 - 06:38 AM

View PostMECH, on Jul 2 2009, 08:49 PM, said:

View Postsky, on Jul 1 2009, 10:41 PM, said:

it's a shame, as i think we're wasting a bit of the potential of the fileformat here. especially with petteri thinking we might be able to do the full monty, 32bit .mips

Have a look in this forum for Papybmp iirc it can create mips type 7 (32-bits)
And if i'm not mistaken Nigel's v2 rasterizers can handle them too.

oih wee, i found it, but for some reason i keep getting colourbanding. using papybmp or not. also i noticed that no matter what i enter for bpc say, 8,8,8,8 - i always end up with 5,6,5 (rgb). i might be a littler denser than the average crowd in this regard :D. that aside i spent some ridiculous amout of time on the windscreen :rolleyes: and am getting where i want to. planes and everything. jeez this planes concept is driving me up the wall. for some reason the entire way the cockpit is built is giving me moments where i want to slap someone senseless, but then i get back to it, fiddle some more only to see it doesn't yield the result i want, go drive some (end up driving some more..).
anyway.
the windscreen in the attach is what i want it to be. i just don't like the way it's done - there's some buggery involved that rather annoys me, looks ok sitting still though. now i need to finally get around to fixing the fire extinguisher handle and the inside cockpit walls.

btw aren't these mirrors the wrong ones on the car? i noticed in the file(s) that there is some with two actual supports - much like the real car - yet idk how to get them to show up.

anyway, finally a screenshot again, yay. (oh yea, the top half of the shifter, wtf? someone added lots of specularity there or highlights or something?

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#36 MECH

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Posted Jul 05 2009 - 07:39 AM

The mirror construction in the ferrari resides in the cockpit node of the car.
You probably already noticed this since you are altering the windscreen.
If you go down the branches you eventually will find the mirror backside (in 3d, see red lined object)
Behind that structure the mirror.mip is called (this is just a flat polygon calling the mirror.mip, see yellow lines)
Next the mirror rim is called (yellow lines) and uses the mipname frim that is mentioned in the 1a8fc node.
By using transparency the backview (frim.mip) is overlayed on the mirror.mip

So basically you need to use a positioner to move the mirror 3d structure a bit outwards.
You can use the one at adress 1a910, it will move the entire structure. Just change the y value a bit and you'll have a sticking out mirror.

The only thing you need to do then is adding the 2 supports by either adding 2 mips or by replacing the entire mirror structure by using an external 3do which you create in 3dsmax  ;)
Personally i think adding 2 mips would be easier, the tricky part is getting them positioned before or after the mirror by putting them in the right draworder.

The shifter has probably specular lighting added. So if you would remove all shiny stuff from the mip it would still have glare. I think the specular lighting is based on the positioning of the normals within the polygons.
I just checked the shiftfe.3do and it has normals but they aren't being used by the 3do file  :confused:  
So it could be that it uses global lighting since it can't determine it by polygons with normals.

To remove or reduce the specular lighting you can use 3doconvert.
It expects a 3do to have a normals section. If it hasn't got a normals reference it won't work.

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#37 Jumi2

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Posted Jul 06 2009 - 06:30 AM

:o I think it looks amazing! Keep it up, its getting there!

#38 Jumi2

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Posted Jul 17 2009 - 08:31 AM

I am currently doing a new bt24 dash, is 2048x1024 for the whole thing enough? I also plan on doing a set of smiths gauges we could use for other dashes, since they were widely used at that time. Anyone got a clue what font they used for lettering/numbers? cant be to fancy i guess. As always any pictures of cockpits for the brabham and/or gauges are welcome.

Edited by Jumi2, Jul 17 2009 - 08:34 AM.


#39 Akseli - guest

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Posted Jul 17 2009 - 08:42 AM

View PostJumi2, on Jul 17 2009, 05:31 PM, said:

I am currently doing a new bt24 dash, is 2048x1024 for the whole thing enough? I also plan on doing a set of smiths gauges we could use for other dashes, since they were widely used at that time. Anyone got a clue what font they used for lettering/numbers? cant be to fancy i guess. As always any pictures of cockpits for the brabham and/or gauges are welcome.

The bigger the better. Resolution can be always reduced for those who wants lowresolution dashes ;)

#40 sky

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Posted Jul 17 2009 - 12:37 PM

View PostJumi2, on Jul 17 2009, 04:31 PM, said:

I am currently doing a new bt24 dash, is 2048x1024 for the whole thing enough? I also plan on doing a set of smiths gauges we could use for other dashes, since they were widely used at that time. Anyone got a clue what font they used for lettering/numbers? cant be to fancy i guess. As always any pictures of cockpits for the brabham and/or gauges are welcome.


awesome jumi!!! and yea, my dash is 2 bits of 1024x1024 so i think you're bang on there. going any higher would mean 4096x2048.. and that's pretty slick but way out. especially since you need to be running the game at resolutions of almost similar dimensions, preferrably twice the texture size (lol) - i don't think there's screens for that just yet.

regarding the smith gauges. i did some research a while ago - while hunting for the fezza gauges and things and i found a picture that was about the best quality i came across, which is still not that good. but anyway. also in that picture you will see the "made in england" at the bottom of those gauges that is always missing in any of the gpl cockpits i have found. sure for labels this small 4096 would be awesome, but then again, the dash is a bit away from the camera at 78° fov, so it will not be the full size, and hence it will be scaled, so it will always be somewhat blurry - an experience i had to make ;). mips=0 helps a bit though :D

fell free to post your progress in here. i'd love to see it!!
in case you have some "jaeger" dials as well.. here's a pic with labels. not as highres as i would wish for, but fair enough
attached are the best shots of the bt24 dash i have amassed since starting this thread, not much i have to admit, but maybe they'll help you out somewhat.


i'm about done with the red bits of my '69 fez, so on to the gearshift and the dreaded upholstery. colin really did a sterling job with his there. we'll see if i can match that. it will be a major effort, of that i'm sure.

/edit
jaeger logos:
http://styleandfashi...69A3FF07834.jpg
that pic is like 3500 x 2000 pix (jaeger lecoultre) tag. it needs slight tilting forward in photoshop and you could use it as a pretty solid basis for recreating the jaeger type.
or this one:
http://styleandfashi...A44584C399B.jpg
saved both of them as i might need to do jaeger dials myself at some point :D

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Edited by sky, Jul 17 2009 - 12:43 PM.


#41 Jumi2

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Posted Jul 17 2009 - 04:16 PM

i have been busy, heres a shot of work in progress
Attached File  sofar1sm.jpg   47.21K   79 downloads
its resized and a bit smaller dont worry  :lol:

heres a dial i just made:
Attached File  dial1.jpg   46.59K   64 downloads
I know its not accurated yet, i have to change it a bit.
to give you idea of size, the dial alone is bigger then one half of the old "highres" cockpit in gpl so far  :lol:

Ill have a look at the other stuff you supplied, great thanks for that! Ill add what i used for reference and dials later.

I have trouble making out all the little stuff on the dials and the writing on the little badge at the lower right. If someone knows the text i could really use that. It says Motor Racing Developments LTD, but after that i cant read a thing under it.

For the layoutit would be needed to change the dials a bit around currently they are at the wrong places, compared to the real car. Would that involve 3do editing of the brabham.3do? its just some centimeters really, not exactly needed but if its easy to do...

Edited by Jumi2, Jul 17 2009 - 04:35 PM.


#42 Jumi2

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Posted Jul 17 2009 - 04:34 PM

ok here ill suply what i found around the web.
heres a website with various smiths dials, very helpfull for reference.

Various unsorted dials and brabhams, not the bt24! But good to get a general idea of the brabham building process.

Attached File  DSCN6177.JPG   263.02K   46 downloadsAttached File  295624957_8Vbor_O.jpg   175.91K   35 downloads
Attached File  brab_cockpit.jpg   39.4K   39 downloadsAttached File  Brabham_BT20_Repco_4.jpg   237.29K   39 downloads

Thats sadly it, i hunted around a bit but its hard to find decent stuff. We should ask the helpful gplnutters  :rolleyes:

Edited by Jumi2, Jul 17 2009 - 04:35 PM.


#43 sky

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Posted Jul 18 2009 - 03:22 AM

View PostJumi2, on Jul 18 2009, 12:34 AM, said:

ok here ill suply what i found around the web.
heres a website with various smiths dials, very helpfull for reference.

Various unsorted dials and brabhams, not the bt24! But good to get a general idea of the brabham building process.

Thats sadly it, i hunted around a bit but its hard to find decent stuff. We should ask the helpful gplnutters  :rolleyes:

good link for the smith stuff!

and yea, welcome to my world  :hat-tip: .. yea it's quite a pain in the buttocks to get real accurate info or even better, highres images. i do have a few shots of the dashboard of the brabham from an old gpl'ers site (link to be remembered and inserted here for credit reasons), but they are very small, which is just sad. regarding the badges and dials. awesome progress so far! for the switches.. i can look if they match any of those that i have used for reference. the ones in my cockpit are repainted according to references. i spent literally a week just collecting images of rivets, bolts, switches, gauges, even reflections, chrome rings and all of that. then i started looking for leather textures and on and on it goes. i am lucky in that the ferrari, even though it has been built less than 5 times in these specs (according to my info anyway), has been to quite a few historic race events in the 90's so there is some people who have images of it.
one of the bt24 cockpit pics i posted has a contact address of the photographer in it. i think we should contact him and ask if maybe he has other angles or bigger size / resolutions of the cockpit and if he wants to support us in our quest to make a better virtual cockpit for this car. we're a non-profit gang here, so that should help get it for free (maybe?). and maybe he has images of other 60's f1 race cars too.

your rpm dial is bigger than 512x512?  :shock: you nutter hehehe actually i don't know about mine, i suspect it's in the 400x400 size range.

repositioning the dials / needles is an easy job really. takes about a minute - even swapping gauges and dials around is rather easy. if you want to use a custom needle for the rpm, i can help you there as well - again big thanks to martin for offering his knowledge here!!! if you need to change the range of rpms the needle has to travel.. well i haven't gone there, as that involves editing the .exe which i'm not quite prepared to do (yet?).

onto imagery... i have some shots of various brabhams,. bt26, bt29, but not so much for the 24. I'll see what i can do. the website atspeedimages.com has some good shots of "my" ferrari, some i would really like to have but 1) they want you to pay for that (BOOOH) and 2) even if you pay, you still only get watermarked pics. and the watermark is rather annoying. i will check if they have stuff on the bt24 there. in the meantime here's a the smaller cockpit images i mentioned earlier.
/edit just checked -> nada, well nothing that is worth using anyway

lol, i just checked, the general reference imagefolder for "my" ferrari is 200megs, materials, gauges, etc.. the folder for actual car imagery is 20megs :S


oh one thing it is "made in england" not "made in uk".. world of a difference there  :punish:


/EDITH

ok, what can i say, jackpot you, lookey here:
linkage to moah brabham goodness. it's mostly kitcars and stuff, but still. for reference imagery it's quite decent. found this on searching refs for my fez :). at times i would just wish they had even bigger resolution shots up there. also if you want to grab a brabham racecar, they're up for grabs there, 20-80k usd ;)
http://www.race-cars...ld/brabhams.htm

arg. i've been editing this post for like the umpteenth time. anyway, as you can see, those badges are not from the bt24, but rather from a bt35 and there's also pics from a bt28 and maybe others in there.. but i think you won't find a better shot of the badge anywhere soon :). on the page above you will find a few more shots of the frame structure of the cars and suspension details etc. in due time i will suck them dry and place them in my archives (being the hunter gatherer i am). ok i think that was the last edit for this post - for now

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Edited by sky, Jul 18 2009 - 04:04 AM.


#44 Jumi2

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Posted Jul 18 2009 - 04:07 AM

View Postsky, on Jul 18 2009, 11:22 AM, said:

oh one thing it is "made in england" not "made in uk".. world of a difference there  :punish:

:)
It has both actually on the dials, i dont know for sure but the smaller ones seem to say made in uk, and the bigger made in england... Thanks for the info and link, should help.

#45 Jumi2

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Posted Jul 18 2009 - 06:09 AM

What is the name of the switch right hand side next to the steering wheel? the flyswitchthingeme?
in this one http://srmz.net/inde...a...st&id=10555




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