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looking for cockpit/gauges photos, all cars '65-'69


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#1 sky

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Posted May 17 2009 - 12:14 PM

hiya folks,

i'm looking for very high resolution photos of the cockpit / dashboard area of all of the cars of the seasons '65-'69. I've tried googling for them, but at times google's image search can be a very tiresome approach, just try googling 'brm dashboard' or 'lotus 49 dashboard'... so i'd like to ask you for your help.

i don't need the entire dash as one picture, though those pics would be appreciated as well. I'd prefer individual shots. i've seen images, pretty crappy low resolution though, of a plaque on the left inside cockpit wall of the lotus - this was from a replica i think. any dial, gauge, switch or plaque, maybe even the cockpit padding, if available, will be greatly appreciated. it would also help if you could help me identify the individual brands of the gauges. some times there's webpages for car spares that have images of such goodies - i remember taking forever to find a certain jaeger gauge for some old bugatti i modeled years ago.

now if you're asking why, yet another high res cockpit? pretty much yes is the answer. i'm going at it as high res as possible - scaling it down to whatever is needed later is the easy part. :)

tia

Edited by sky, Jun 01 2009 - 01:43 PM.


#2 Saiph

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Posted May 17 2009 - 04:29 PM

View Postsky, on May 17 2009, 07:14 PM, said:

now if you're asking why, yet another high res cockpit? pretty much yes is the answer. i'm going at it as high res as possible - scaling it down to whatever is needed later is the easy part. :)
I don't really understand why you want to spend time duplicating work that has already been done. As you've already admitted with the "yet another" comment, there are plenty of other cockpit upgrades available already, so why bother? Why not spend time and effort giving the GPL community something new, instead of repeats of something old?

Just my 2 cents.  :huh:  :wave:

#3 sky

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Posted May 18 2009 - 09:44 AM

View PostSaiph, on May 18 2009, 12:29 AM, said:

View Postsky, on May 17 2009, 07:14 PM, said:

now if you're asking why, yet another high res cockpit? pretty much yes is the answer. i'm going at it as high res as possible - scaling it down to whatever is needed later is the easy part. :)
I don't really understand why you want to spend time duplicating work that has already been done. As you've already admitted with the "yet another" comment, there are plenty of other cockpit upgrades available already, so why bother? Why not spend time and effort giving the GPL community something new, instead of repeats of something old?

Just my 2 cents.  :huh:  :wave:

wellllll.. tbh, i'm kinda selfish in ways :) and i want the cockpit to be crystal clear - playing at 1920x1080 for the moment, thinking about going 2560x1600 or so some time soonish. and while i do love the cockpits so far, i would want some more bling bling, because some bits are blurred in current cockpits.
that aside, i have been working on and off on some track updates over the past few years. none of which are released as they haven't been finished yet, work, travel and a weird sense of perfection got in the way... i'm a one man-army (team sounds a bit ridiculous given it's just me - well army is just delusions of grandeur, but whatever) so things tend to take considerably longer as compared to bigger 'teams'.
besides i have done some 3d modelling myself, and in the long term, my intentions are to build a 3ds model of the lotus49, maybe even the 1967 eagle. and for that reason alone i need high res reference pics of the gauges and dials, highres dashboard graphics for gpl would be a 'by-product' of sorts. i did a bugatti type 32 ('tank') a few years ago, and i intend to do something similar, if at a higher quality, now.

regarding the track updates - just in case you should care (if not skip to the end) - i've been in contact with the allam brothers (spelling?) about their reims track asking for permission as that is one of the two tracks i have been working on - the other being laguna seca. i wanted to go very highres in the texture department, we're talking 2048x2048 for the main textures, tarmac, grass/dirt, etc... i think i even posted pics of the development on some site (gpl repository iirc). - people usually didn't / don't understand why i would go for this texture size, so i don't expect anyone to see the point in it really. it's just something i do, as i notice the difference in going to 'only' 1024x, let alone 512x textures. yet i *am* aware of the great majority of people who do not care or maybe do not have the rig to handle these texture size, that is why i said 'selfish' above. you see. the jackseller eagle update is 512x512 max, even if it is incredible as it is, it is insufficient for my liking.

so there you go. and if all of that doesn't convince you, well i'd just like to have highres imagery of the perspective jim, jackie and all the other greats had when driving. :)

#4 Saiph

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Posted May 18 2009 - 09:57 AM

Wow, if you have the hardware to run at those high resolutions, then maybe I can see why you could appreciate the detailed cockpits. I can just about run at 1280x1024, but I still like to stick with my old Iiyama 17" CRT, so the dials etc. still look pretty small. I spend most of my time looking outside the cockpit anyway. If you can create something that genuinely goes one step further than people have gone before, and it looks good to you, then it's not selfish, go for it. Good luck with getting the pics.

View Postsky, on May 18 2009, 04:44 PM, said:

.........
So there you go. and if all of that doesn't convince you, well i'd just like to have highres imagery of the perspective jim, jackie and all the other greats had when driving. :)
Oh, I totally agree with that!  :)  :thumbup:

Edited by Saiph, May 18 2009 - 10:01 AM.


#5 miklkit

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Posted May 18 2009 - 07:41 PM

I can understand sky's point.  I just got a 24" monitor, and the dash can look fuzzy even close up.

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#6 sky

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Posted May 20 2009 - 08:31 PM

View Postmiklkit, on May 19 2009, 03:41 AM, said:

I can understand sky's point.  I just got a 24" monitor, and the dash can look fuzzy even close up.

exactly my point :D although i'd prefer a 24" with 2560x but i don't think there's a widescreen like that. anyway, i've been working on the '69 fez, using the 512x512 textures as the basis. current texture size is 1024x1024 (for half the dash) and i think this is as high as it needs to be, at least for anything up to a 1080i resolution. i've also been experimenting with mip settings a bit. the shot below is from a mip with 0 subimages. i am/was under the impression, that the file with 1 subimage looks slightly sharper. anyway this is about as sharp as you get - it might be different for higher resolutions.
now tinkering with the textures made me realize i always longed for a really smooth upper curve of the visor / windscreen. but alas i'm not too good messing with existing models / uvwmapping them, i guess i have to scrap that idea.
cockpit sidewalls, steering wheel, windscreen, mirrors and tires are as yet untouched...

Posted Image

while trying it out, i managed my fastest lap time in clermont ferrand, 3:13.43 which i'm rather pleased with at the moment.

#7 Ken

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Posted May 21 2009 - 12:49 AM

View Postsky, on May 18 2009, 04:44 PM, said:

so there you go. and if all of that doesn't convince you, well i'd just like to have highres imagery of the perspective jim, jackie and all the other greats had when driving. :)

Yes, but surely jim and jackie only saw that high res perspective when the car was parked in the garage. During the race I'm sure the view through oil stained goggles of a vibrating set of guages was anything but high res??! :)

#8 Akseli - guest

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Posted May 21 2009 - 06:23 AM

View Postsky, on May 21 2009, 05:31 AM, said:


WOW, Where can I download it? ;)

EDIT: Enable anti alliasing ;)

Edited by Akseli, May 21 2009 - 06:26 AM.


#9 Paul W.

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Posted May 21 2009 - 04:08 PM

a very good attitude as for me, I would like to get all GPL stuff in high end graphics, the game deserves it

#10 sky

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Posted May 21 2009 - 08:12 PM

you all will eventually be able to download it - i'm not that selfish :D - but for now i'm still working on / testing it - hardly done. i spent the better part of today (5 day holiday, yay) redoing the steering wheel & logo, plus the front part of the cockpit, which is now sort of final. the steering wheel / logo brought up demons from the past i thought long gone. yes, you guessed it - transparency and alpha maps. why o why can't i have a 16bit image and an 8bit alpha map? limitations of the a time gone by. since i'm far from satisfied with the result of the ingame texture/alpha, i'm going to redo it. the combined texture has been reduced to what appears to be 12bit total plus 4bit for the alpha map by winmip. i'll have to consult the wiki, as i think i remember there was a way to keep the texture 15bit(ish) and a 1bit alpha map. guess there will be some real fiddling to see if you can get a decent stencil with 1bit :D - just need to find the right winmip settings here.

Posted Image

not the result i want. this was using less than the 32k colors (actually less than half of that), yet i still get fringing. yea i used red for the background and the pics didn't have any gradient in them. i'll reduce the wheel to 1024x1024 for the next try :D

#11 sky

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Posted May 22 2009 - 07:15 PM

smallish update, i got the humbuggery with the steering wheel vs. alpha channel ironed out and i will try resize the texture of the wheel to 1024 (2048 now) and of the central badge to 256 (512 now) as i'm not sold on the graininess there. sure, that'll cost some of the leather texture's details, but whatever, right? ;)
that aside, the dashboard, windscreen and steering wheel textures are done. next up either inside cockpit wall or tires. regarding the tires: can anyone tell me the exact type of the tires used. i mean i know they are firestone, but which type (images???)? any kind of info on the tires would be welcome.

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#12 miklkit

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Posted May 23 2009 - 12:26 AM

I'm going to trust Luc Van Gossum on this and go with his tire treads for the 67 Cooper.  His Coopers are based on photos that agree with my memory of old magazine photos that say those treads are late 60's Firestone tires.  Until someone who actually knows what they are talking about comes along...... :rolleyes:

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#13 sky

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Posted May 23 2009 - 04:14 PM

View Postmiklkit, on May 23 2009, 08:26 AM, said:

I'm going to trust Luc Van Gossum on this and go with his tire treads for the 67 Cooper.  His Coopers are based on photos that agree with my memory of old magazine photos that say those treads are late 60's Firestone tires.  Until someone who actually knows what they are talking about comes along...... :rolleyes:

hm yea, in the first few races of '67 lotus ran dunlop tires as firestone could not deliver on time or some such. anyway, as i mentioned in another thread (the brabham one), i've been trawling the net for info / pictures on the car / tires and eventually hit a homer - on flickr. it's a goldmine, that is if people actually tag their stuff properly. below is a link to the photostream of one guy going by 'dmentd'

312 f1 '69 photostream on flickr.com by 'dmentd'

he has posted around 60 pretty high resolution shots of the '69 312 f1 there. oddly enough the car is quite different from the gpl model. one thing that immediately struck me (besides the rear end) is that in the gpl dash it's oil pressure, rpm, water temp and fuel (from left to right) - in the car he photographed in '94 water temp and oil pressure have switched places. i've seen this in other pictures of this car as well. so i'm a bit curious. as far as i know there have only been 2 ferrari 312 f1 '69 cars. so maybe this is the 'other' one? ;).
for the sake of being authentic the dials need to be swapped, i guess. luckily they are the same size :D - i just don't know (yet?) how much work changing the actual workings would take, i.e. edit the config or whatnot to swap water and oil...

and thanks to flickr i now have some ok pictures to work with for the tires and the cockpit cloth. just not sure if i should stick with what is in the car now. like keeping the style of the current textures / model with black leather padding and the dials being different or with what the reference pics claim. there are other difference, like the rpm counter that has a top center figure of 8.000 rpm in the real car and 10.000 in the gpl remake. :S

i think i'll stick with the current gpl template and do an accurate version later on ...

#14 MECH

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Posted May 24 2009 - 03:19 AM

View Postsky, on May 24 2009, 12:14 AM, said:

for the sake of being authentic the dials need to be swapped, i guess. luckily they are the same size :D - i just don't know (yet?) how much work changing the actual workings would take, i.e. edit the config or whatnot to swap water and oil...

Shouldn't take that long to swap those.
The needles have positioners which coords can be swapped within minutes work.
You'ld only have to replace the ferrari.3do to have them work in GPL  :)

Note: If the needles need to be rotated to match a gauge that doesn't have a horizontal placing it would require recoding of the exe if i'm not mistaken..not sure though.

Thx, for the link btw. Pity he didn't have those of the wingless 312  :wub:
They already started to look a bit ugly in 69  :spyme:

Edited by MECH, May 24 2009 - 03:28 AM.


#15 Lee200

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Posted May 24 2009 - 02:23 PM

View PostMECH, on May 24 2009, 04:19 AM, said:

Shouldn't take that long to swap those.
The needles have positioners which coords can be swapped within minutes work.
You'ld only have to replace the ferrari.3do to have them work in GPL  :)

Note: If the needles need to be rotated to match a gauge that doesn't have a horizontal placing it would require recoding of the exe if i'm not mistaken..not sure though.

Yes,

The needle size, color, and position coordinates are in the 3DO.

The needle rotation angles are in the .exe.

Lee

#16 sky

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Posted May 24 2009 - 06:40 PM

View PostLee200, on May 24 2009, 10:23 PM, said:

View PostMECH, on May 24 2009, 04:19 AM, said:

You'ld only have to replace the ferrari.3do to have them work in GPL  :)
Note: If the needles need to be rotated to match a gauge that doesn't have a horizontal placing it would require recoding of the exe if i'm not mistaken..not sure though.
The needle size, color, and position coordinates are in the 3DO.
The needle rotation angles are in the .exe.

Lee

thanks for the input guys!!
i figured it had to be somewhere and it had to be possible. the 3d part sounds easy enough, relatively speaking. the rotation angles being in the .exe is a bummer though. especially given the rpm counter using a different range and angle on the actual 69 car, similar things for the watertemp, though i don't think anyone would notice the difference as i doubt you'd get the water temperature that high without blowing the engine. besides the real '69 ferrari had a second needle for the max temp it would seem. similar to the one for the rpm / max rpm.

i've just downloaded a few .3do editors via the wiki, and the only one that makes any sense to me is gpleditor.exe. i've found and changed the position of the water temp and oil pressure gauges and just moved them upwards to see if it is as easy as that. it was :). i'll branch off into another thread tomorrow, asking specifics about how and what it is i see in that editor (say subdivide one big polygon into two smaller ones and keep the texture intact on them)...
so changing the positions is indeed a piece of cake. edit the y,z values, voila - 20 secs if you know where to look. only thing takes a little longer is browsing the actual tree(s) of nodes.

so i am currently hunting down texture references for the seemingly checkered cockpit lining. is that leather or cloth or plastic?

i think i'll adjust the topic title / description somewhat in the general direction of w.i.p. cockpit update(s)...

#17 MECH

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Posted May 25 2009 - 05:02 AM

View Postsky, on May 25 2009, 02:40 AM, said:

i'll branch off into another thread tomorrow, asking specifics about how and what it is i see in that editor (say subdivide one big polygon into two smaller ones and keep the texture intact on them)...

Just curious why would you want to do that? Creating 2 triangles to get a 3d needle look?

Some needles use the same polygon (oiltemp en oilpressure iirc), so if you alter it's color the other will change as well. To have that unchanged you need to add new vertices and 1 polygon (or more)

View Postsky, on May 25 2009, 02:40 AM, said:

only thing takes a little longer is browsing the actual tree(s) of nodes.
All gauges are referenced in the repository node by pwater,poilt etc.. which is the lowest tree in the GPLTrackeditor (if this is the editor you are using, must be there aren't many(none) that can actualy do that)
If you extend a p.... tree you will see a value in the node in brackets. If you press F3 and type in that value GPLTrackeditor will open the (PRIM) car tree in that specific node. Saves you time looking for it  :)

But basically all the gauges are in the same subtree.
The car has 3 trees in the PRIM tree:
1. Shadow, distant mapping
2. Cockpit mode tree
3. F10 mode tree
So you should find the gauges,shifter, steeringwheel, driver legs,arms,hands in the 2nd tree (by pressing F2 in a tree you'll see the part that is been drawn and you can navigate to the gauges) :)

#18 sky

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Posted May 25 2009 - 06:41 AM

first up thank you very much for taking the time to reply to my numerous questions, i really appreciate it a lot!

View PostMECH, on May 25 2009, 01:02 PM, said:

View Postsky, on May 25 2009, 02:40 AM, said:

i'll branch off into another thread tomorrow, asking specifics about how and what it is i see in that editor (say subdivide one big polygon into two smaller ones and keep the texture intact on them)...

Just curious why would you want to do that? Creating 2 triangles to get a 3d needle look?

nooo.. this is just me wanting to understand the way these things are build up. i'm good regarding the gauges and re-positioning them to wherever i need them to be accurate. that part, as tested yesterday, proved to be successful. besides, the needles for the gauges are untextured polygons as far as i can see.
i was getting ahead of myself here. say, what if i wanted to change a detail on the car to be more accurate or to be more appealing. easy example, for the sake of being an example. take the fglass element (the windscreen if you will) that i haven't managed to find inside the ferrari.3do anyway. but what if i wanted to double the number of polygons for it? it should weigh in at 20 tris so far, so make that 40 tris / 20 polygons afterwards. to be honest, i'm not getting to terms with the editor so far. moving vertexes seems impossible to me - somehow my gpl track editor came without a manual / helpfile :(... so i'm just fishing in the dark. i'm much more used to 3dsmax's way of click and drag or click, f12, enter values, done as i've used that professionally in a previous life. compared to that the gpl track editor is .. well.. archaic, but functional :D - i'd prefer to be able to edit in max, export to .ase (via 123do to .3do) or straight to .3do and presto, see if it works, but hey... ,)

View PostMECH, on May 25 2009, 01:02 PM, said:

Some needles use the same polygon (oiltemp en oilpressure iirc), so if you alter it's color the other will change as well. To have that unchanged you need to add new vertices and 1 polygon (or more)

understood. i just saw that in the ferrari there is a node called "190" which has a flavour of 4 and 1 child(ren). is that 4 indicating 4 vertexes or something else entirely (likely)? this node shows up twice, once in the poilt tree and another time in the poilp - so as you say, same polygon (subnode 174). what if i wanted to make that into a triangle? remove one vertex from the list? - what if i wanted it to be a 5-gon? that would require 2 polygons. so create a new subnode ("191" as an example - if unused), define it's vertex points et voila?


View PostMECH, on May 25 2009, 01:02 PM, said:

All gauges are referenced in the repository node by pwater,poilt etc.. which is the lowest tree in the GPLTrackeditor (if this is the editor you are using, must be there aren't many(none) that can actualy do that)
If you extend a p.... tree you will see a value in the node in brackets. If you press F3 and type in that value GPLTrackeditor will open the (PRIM) car tree in that specific node. Saves you time looking for it  :)

But basically all the gauges are in the same subtree.
The car has 3 trees in the PRIM tree:
1. Shadow, distant mapping
2. Cockpit mode tree
3. F10 mode tree
So you should find the gauges,shifter, steeringwheel, driver legs,arms,hands in the 2nd tree (by pressing F2 in a tree you'll see the part that is been drawn and you can navigate to the gauges) :)

hm. attached is a screenshot of how the ferrari.3do shows up in my gpl track editor (ver 1.0.0.1 or so). with the 3 trees you are referring to the last three entries above DNAH / HAND at the bottom, right?
-car (tree root 107492)
-cockpit (tree root 112708)
-shadow (tree root 113716)?

for me those 3 trees have an entry of flavour 13 and underneath that something called "subtree". and yes, clicking on the node that says [1b844] flavor=13 and then pressing F2 shows it in the 3d window, handy! (you can tell that program was written by an american, flavor, pff ;) ). so clicking and F2'ing cockpit i see the polygons in question. but where does the fglass group of polies hide? i can see the polygons but can't do anything about them

btw do you have the helpfile for this nifty tool? i don't want to bug you with all those questions as to how to use the tool etc. if they are outlined in the manual / help

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#19 MECH

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Posted May 25 2009 - 12:52 PM

[quote name='sky' post='32307' date='May 25 2009, 02:41 PM']i'd prefer to be able to edit in max, export to .ase (via 123do to .3do) or straight to .3do and presto, see if it works, but hey... ,)[/quote] We are working on canam '71, '66, sportscars '67 etc.. with 3dsmax convert to sliced ase files. process it through ase23do and build the blocks together again as a complete car  :) The parts fit in a car 3do as external called 3do objects which makes it possible to arrange them around the driver and wheels.

[quote name='sky' post='32307' date='May 25 2009, 02:41 PM']understood. i just saw that in the ferrari there is a node called "190" which has a flavour of 4 and 1 child(ren). is that 4 indicating 4 vertexes or something else entirely (likely)?[/quote]
Nope, Flavor 4 means a multi node, the number of children means number of branches.
This particular one has a flat polygon in it. If you doubleclick it an edit screen will pop up which shows the vertices it uses as well as which color, alpha etc..
There are several polygons possible, some call an external mip, some have normals (for specular lighting) etc..

Here's a site that has some info on editing: [url="http://www.gplpp.com/"]GPL++[/url] Look under howto for several hints.
For an explanation on 3do's and the node types:[url="http://www.vanwall.eclipse.co.uk/gplediting/"]Guru's site[/url] & [url="http://gplea.rscsites.org/tools/ase23do/3dodummies.htm"]3do Tutorial[/url]

I'm afraid trackside objects have more info than car 3do's (there are still some unknown matters in this area)
And be prepared to invest lot's of time.. :lol:

[quote name='sky' post='32307' date='May 25 2009, 02:41 PM']this node shows up twice, once in the poilt tree and another time in the poilp - so as you say, same polygon (subnode 174). what if i wanted to make that into a triangle? remove one vertex from the list? - what if i wanted it to be a 5-gon? that would require 2 polygons. so create a new subnode ("191" as an example - if unused), define it's vertex points et voila?[/quote]Yes, it's possible to edit the polygon and remove one vertice. Changing the top vertice coord would make it a triangle than. To add another polygon you would have to change the node in one with 2 children. That basically works like this: Cut the polygon [174] from the flavor 4 [190], it will show an empty node were the polygon was. Right click the Flavor 4[190] node and select insert - replace node. Select the Flavor 0x4 Multi Node Root and type in the number of children you need (=2). Paste (rightclick and paste node) in the first empty node the polygon you have cut before (it should be still in memory) The new empty node could then be replaced with a flat polygon (right click en select insert - replace in the menu and choose:Flavor 0x81b Flat Polygon) This new polygon will automatically have 4 vertices which will use vertice numbers 0 to 3. You can change the vertice numbers after you have added the new vertices. Since you are working on the needles you don't need to worry about visibility planes because you are only looking at them from one static point.


[quote name='sky' post='32307' date='May 25 2009, 02:41 PM']hm. attached is a screenshot of how the ferrari.3do shows up in my gpl track editor (ver 1.0.0.1 or so). with the 3 trees you are referring to the last three entries above DNAH / HAND at the bottom, right?
-car (tree root 107492)
-cockpit (tree root 112708)
-shadow (tree root 113716)?[/quote]
I'm sorry, i must have confused you with this reply (was at work so i had to guess it a bit )
See attached image (3do-tree) The 3do tree (PRIM) contains all nodes with their polygons and other stuff for a car. The trees below the 3do tree contain referrals to the special nodes (gauges, driverhead etc..)
If you edit something in those nodes the PRIM 3do tree will expand after the change. Typing the tree no# after pressing F3 will also expand the PRIM 3do tree at the position were that specific node resides in the car 3do tree.

[quote name='sky' post='32307' date='May 25 2009, 02:41 PM']but where does the fglass group of polies hide? i can see the polygons but can't do anything about them[/quote]
The nodes are in:
F3 + [1abc0] = right side
F3 + [1ad34] = left side
Both have 5 polygons which are shaped in a quarter of a circle (not quite but you get the picture  ;) )
Doubleclicking them should make them editable but that has no point imho.
What's needed is several extra polygons. However that implementing means you also need to change the mipmapping (the left bottom part in the polygon edit menu) Not an easy task..


[quote name='sky' post='32307' date='May 25 2009, 02:41 PM']btw do you have the helpfile for this nifty tool? i don't want to bug you with all those questions as to how to use the tool etc. if they are outlined in the manual / help[/quote]
I'm not sure there is a helpfile ever made. I learned most of the stuff with help of others or by just trying :shrug:

P.S. F3 & typing 1aa2c gives all the gauge nodes for the lowwing fez cockpit


Note: Always make a backup of the 3do your editing. GPLTrack editor has a nasty way of messing things up.
For example if you add a node it might be neccessary to fill one child otherwise the 3do will get distorted  :rolleyes:

Attached Files


Edited by MECH, May 25 2009 - 02:44 PM.


#20 sky

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Posted May 26 2009 - 02:31 PM

brilliant! thanks a lot for writing that up. i went to check the links at work and did some more reading just now. the gpl++ site seems to be quite good, especially as he is exactly doing what i have been thinking about. he has the example of the old single part dash vs the new one two part one. i've given it a quick go, and managed to get a result of the sort i was looking for. just very quick and dirty. actually i did that after reading your post and the .3do texts on guru's page.
and regarding the uvw mapping. that seems pretty straightforward actually. after all it is just math if you think about it. but then again, maybe not, as some parts are quite heavily distorted via the original texture. like for example the rivets holding the windshield up are rather small near the outer ends of the glass, whereas the further away rivets are bigger. in the original texture they were the same size, so i had them enlarged for the parts nearer to you so that they actually look somewhat nearer in size then originally.

also great many thanks for the keyboard shortcuts and what to find and where. without help i'd be lost there.

[quote name='MECH' post='32324' date='May 25 2009, 08:52 PM']We are working on canam '71, '66, sportscars '67 etc.. with 3dsmax convert to sliced ase files. process it through ase23do and build the blocks together again as a complete car  :) The parts fit in a car 3do as external called 3do objects which makes it possible to arrange them around the driver and wheels.[/quote]

see that's an idea i had as well. replace parts by moving them into external files that can be created from scratch and be textured at will and way easier than trying to squeeze bits and pieces into the original file and getting lost in the process.

sportscars 1967 has me itching with anticipation already :D

[quote name='MECH' post='32324' date='May 25 2009, 08:52 PM']Here's a site that has some info on editing: [url="http://www.gplpp.com/"]GPL++[/url] Look under howto for several hints.
For an explanation on 3do's and the node types:[url="http://www.vanwall.eclipse.co.uk/gplediting/"]Guru's site[/url] & [url="http://gplea.rscsites.org/tools/ase23do/3dodummies.htm"]3do Tutorial[/url][/quote]

as said above. thanks alot! i remember gpl++ from some years ago, the ronnie peterson picture stuck - and the color scheme. so yep, now they are bookmarked again and i will save them for offline browsing, just in case.

[quote name='MECH' post='32324' date='May 25 2009, 08:52 PM']I'm afraid trackside objects have more info than car 3do's (there are still some unknown matters in this area)
And be prepared to invest lot's of time.. :lol:[/quote]

trackside objects will be considered at some point later :D. first i need to do a fair few trials with what i'm learning right now to see if i really understand what i am doing.

[quote name='MECH' post='32324' date='May 25 2009, 08:52 PM']choose:Flavor 0x81b Flat Polygon) This new polygon will automatically have 4 vertices which will use vertice numbers 0 to 3. You can change the vertice numbers after you have added the new vertices. Since you are working on the needles you don't need to worry about visibility planes because you are only looking at them from one static point.[/quote]

the visibility planes were the part where my head started spinning at work :D. i think i get what they are used for but i need to do some sketching and testing to see if i (really) got it. and anyway, i doubt i got half of what all those texts said. so practice will show where i lack in understanding


[quote name='MECH' post='32324' date='May 25 2009, 08:52 PM']I'm sorry, i must have confused you with this reply (was at work so i had to guess it a bit )
See attached image (3do-tree) The 3do tree (PRIM) contains all nodes with their polygons and other stuff for a car. The trees below the 3do tree contain referrals to the special nodes (gauges, driverhead etc..)
If you edit something in those nodes the PRIM 3do tree will expand after the change. Typing the tree no# after pressing F3 will also expand the PRIM 3do tree at the position were that specific node resides in the car 3do tree.[/quote]

no worries. i'm greatful for anything! even if i don't get it at first :)

[quote name='MECH' post='32324' date='May 25 2009, 08:52 PM']The nodes are in:
F3 + [1abc0] = right side
F3 + [1ad34] = left side
Both have 5 polygons which are shaped in a quarter of a circle (not quite but you get the picture  ;) )
Doubleclicking them should make them editable but that has no point imho.
What's needed is several extra polygons. However that implementing means you also need to change the mipmapping (the left bottom part in the polygon edit menu) Not an easy task..[/quote]

ah, brilliant, and i found some more fglass elements as well. those above are the center parts, then there is an additional group of polies on the left and right side. the contain the ending parts of the glass. actually the entire windscreen is made of a U shape. like two joined L's pretty straight affairs, not really that curved really. just appears that way in game while driving
the other two are
[1b520] = left outer end
[1b650] = right outer end

[quote name='MECH' post='32324' date='May 25 2009, 08:52 PM']I'm not sure there is a helpfile ever made. I learned most of the stuff with help of others or by just trying :shrug:

P.S. F3 & typing 1aa2c gives all the gauge nodes for the lowwing fez cockpit

Note: Always make a backup of the 3do your editing. GPLTrack editor has a nasty way of messing things up.
For example if you add a node it might be neccessary to fill one child otherwise the 3do will get distorted  :rolleyes:
[/quote]

oh i learned the backup lesson well ;) i'm working in two different directories, one containing the original backups, the other a set of wip things and then there's the actual gpl folder where, by simply deleting the .3do or .mip file you can revert to the originals stored in the .dat

seems that they have all the dials in the car, but not used every single one of them, hm :)




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