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looking for cockpit/gauges photos, all cars '65-'69


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#1 sky

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Posted May 17 2009 - 12:14 PM

hiya folks,

i'm looking for very high resolution photos of the cockpit / dashboard area of all of the cars of the seasons '65-'69. I've tried googling for them, but at times google's image search can be a very tiresome approach, just try googling 'brm dashboard' or 'lotus 49 dashboard'... so i'd like to ask you for your help.

i don't need the entire dash as one picture, though those pics would be appreciated as well. I'd prefer individual shots. i've seen images, pretty crappy low resolution though, of a plaque on the left inside cockpit wall of the lotus - this was from a replica i think. any dial, gauge, switch or plaque, maybe even the cockpit padding, if available, will be greatly appreciated. it would also help if you could help me identify the individual brands of the gauges. some times there's webpages for car spares that have images of such goodies - i remember taking forever to find a certain jaeger gauge for some old bugatti i modeled years ago.

now if you're asking why, yet another high res cockpit? pretty much yes is the answer. i'm going at it as high res as possible - scaling it down to whatever is needed later is the easy part. :)

tia

Edited by sky, Jun 01 2009 - 01:43 PM.


#2 Saiph

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Posted May 17 2009 - 04:29 PM

View Postsky, on May 17 2009, 07:14 PM, said:

now if you're asking why, yet another high res cockpit? pretty much yes is the answer. i'm going at it as high res as possible - scaling it down to whatever is needed later is the easy part. :)
I don't really understand why you want to spend time duplicating work that has already been done. As you've already admitted with the "yet another" comment, there are plenty of other cockpit upgrades available already, so why bother? Why not spend time and effort giving the GPL community something new, instead of repeats of something old?

Just my 2 cents.  :huh:  :wave:

#3 sky

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Posted May 18 2009 - 09:44 AM

View PostSaiph, on May 18 2009, 12:29 AM, said:

View Postsky, on May 17 2009, 07:14 PM, said:

now if you're asking why, yet another high res cockpit? pretty much yes is the answer. i'm going at it as high res as possible - scaling it down to whatever is needed later is the easy part. :)
I don't really understand why you want to spend time duplicating work that has already been done. As you've already admitted with the "yet another" comment, there are plenty of other cockpit upgrades available already, so why bother? Why not spend time and effort giving the GPL community something new, instead of repeats of something old?

Just my 2 cents.  :huh:  :wave:

wellllll.. tbh, i'm kinda selfish in ways :) and i want the cockpit to be crystal clear - playing at 1920x1080 for the moment, thinking about going 2560x1600 or so some time soonish. and while i do love the cockpits so far, i would want some more bling bling, because some bits are blurred in current cockpits.
that aside, i have been working on and off on some track updates over the past few years. none of which are released as they haven't been finished yet, work, travel and a weird sense of perfection got in the way... i'm a one man-army (team sounds a bit ridiculous given it's just me - well army is just delusions of grandeur, but whatever) so things tend to take considerably longer as compared to bigger 'teams'.
besides i have done some 3d modelling myself, and in the long term, my intentions are to build a 3ds model of the lotus49, maybe even the 1967 eagle. and for that reason alone i need high res reference pics of the gauges and dials, highres dashboard graphics for gpl would be a 'by-product' of sorts. i did a bugatti type 32 ('tank') a few years ago, and i intend to do something similar, if at a higher quality, now.

regarding the track updates - just in case you should care (if not skip to the end) - i've been in contact with the allam brothers (spelling?) about their reims track asking for permission as that is one of the two tracks i have been working on - the other being laguna seca. i wanted to go very highres in the texture department, we're talking 2048x2048 for the main textures, tarmac, grass/dirt, etc... i think i even posted pics of the development on some site (gpl repository iirc). - people usually didn't / don't understand why i would go for this texture size, so i don't expect anyone to see the point in it really. it's just something i do, as i notice the difference in going to 'only' 1024x, let alone 512x textures. yet i *am* aware of the great majority of people who do not care or maybe do not have the rig to handle these texture size, that is why i said 'selfish' above. you see. the jackseller eagle update is 512x512 max, even if it is incredible as it is, it is insufficient for my liking.

so there you go. and if all of that doesn't convince you, well i'd just like to have highres imagery of the perspective jim, jackie and all the other greats had when driving. :)

#4 Saiph

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Posted May 18 2009 - 09:57 AM

Wow, if you have the hardware to run at those high resolutions, then maybe I can see why you could appreciate the detailed cockpits. I can just about run at 1280x1024, but I still like to stick with my old Iiyama 17" CRT, so the dials etc. still look pretty small. I spend most of my time looking outside the cockpit anyway. If you can create something that genuinely goes one step further than people have gone before, and it looks good to you, then it's not selfish, go for it. Good luck with getting the pics.

View Postsky, on May 18 2009, 04:44 PM, said:

.........
So there you go. and if all of that doesn't convince you, well i'd just like to have highres imagery of the perspective jim, jackie and all the other greats had when driving. :)
Oh, I totally agree with that!  :)  :thumbup:

Edited by Saiph, May 18 2009 - 10:01 AM.


#5 miklkit

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Posted May 18 2009 - 07:41 PM

I can understand sky's point.  I just got a 24" monitor, and the dash can look fuzzy even close up.

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#6 sky

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Posted May 20 2009 - 08:31 PM

View Postmiklkit, on May 19 2009, 03:41 AM, said:

I can understand sky's point.  I just got a 24" monitor, and the dash can look fuzzy even close up.

exactly my point :D although i'd prefer a 24" with 2560x but i don't think there's a widescreen like that. anyway, i've been working on the '69 fez, using the 512x512 textures as the basis. current texture size is 1024x1024 (for half the dash) and i think this is as high as it needs to be, at least for anything up to a 1080i resolution. i've also been experimenting with mip settings a bit. the shot below is from a mip with 0 subimages. i am/was under the impression, that the file with 1 subimage looks slightly sharper. anyway this is about as sharp as you get - it might be different for higher resolutions.
now tinkering with the textures made me realize i always longed for a really smooth upper curve of the visor / windscreen. but alas i'm not too good messing with existing models / uvwmapping them, i guess i have to scrap that idea.
cockpit sidewalls, steering wheel, windscreen, mirrors and tires are as yet untouched...

Posted Image

while trying it out, i managed my fastest lap time in clermont ferrand, 3:13.43 which i'm rather pleased with at the moment.

#7 Ken

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Posted May 21 2009 - 12:49 AM

View Postsky, on May 18 2009, 04:44 PM, said:

so there you go. and if all of that doesn't convince you, well i'd just like to have highres imagery of the perspective jim, jackie and all the other greats had when driving. :)

Yes, but surely jim and jackie only saw that high res perspective when the car was parked in the garage. During the race I'm sure the view through oil stained goggles of a vibrating set of guages was anything but high res??! :)

#8 Akseli - guest

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Posted May 21 2009 - 06:23 AM

View Postsky, on May 21 2009, 05:31 AM, said:


WOW, Where can I download it? ;)

EDIT: Enable anti alliasing ;)

Edited by Akseli, May 21 2009 - 06:26 AM.


#9 Paul W.

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Posted May 21 2009 - 04:08 PM

a very good attitude as for me, I would like to get all GPL stuff in high end graphics, the game deserves it

#10 sky

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Posted May 21 2009 - 08:12 PM

you all will eventually be able to download it - i'm not that selfish :D - but for now i'm still working on / testing it - hardly done. i spent the better part of today (5 day holiday, yay) redoing the steering wheel & logo, plus the front part of the cockpit, which is now sort of final. the steering wheel / logo brought up demons from the past i thought long gone. yes, you guessed it - transparency and alpha maps. why o why can't i have a 16bit image and an 8bit alpha map? limitations of the a time gone by. since i'm far from satisfied with the result of the ingame texture/alpha, i'm going to redo it. the combined texture has been reduced to what appears to be 12bit total plus 4bit for the alpha map by winmip. i'll have to consult the wiki, as i think i remember there was a way to keep the texture 15bit(ish) and a 1bit alpha map. guess there will be some real fiddling to see if you can get a decent stencil with 1bit :D - just need to find the right winmip settings here.

Posted Image

not the result i want. this was using less than the 32k colors (actually less than half of that), yet i still get fringing. yea i used red for the background and the pics didn't have any gradient in them. i'll reduce the wheel to 1024x1024 for the next try :D

#11 sky

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Posted May 22 2009 - 07:15 PM

smallish update, i got the humbuggery with the steering wheel vs. alpha channel ironed out and i will try resize the texture of the wheel to 1024 (2048 now) and of the central badge to 256 (512 now) as i'm not sold on the graininess there. sure, that'll cost some of the leather texture's details, but whatever, right? ;)
that aside, the dashboard, windscreen and steering wheel textures are done. next up either inside cockpit wall or tires. regarding the tires: can anyone tell me the exact type of the tires used. i mean i know they are firestone, but which type (images???)? any kind of info on the tires would be welcome.

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#12 miklkit

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Posted May 23 2009 - 12:26 AM

I'm going to trust Luc Van Gossum on this and go with his tire treads for the 67 Cooper.  His Coopers are based on photos that agree with my memory of old magazine photos that say those treads are late 60's Firestone tires.  Until someone who actually knows what they are talking about comes along...... :rolleyes:

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#13 sky

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Posted May 23 2009 - 04:14 PM

View Postmiklkit, on May 23 2009, 08:26 AM, said:

I'm going to trust Luc Van Gossum on this and go with his tire treads for the 67 Cooper.  His Coopers are based on photos that agree with my memory of old magazine photos that say those treads are late 60's Firestone tires.  Until someone who actually knows what they are talking about comes along...... :rolleyes:

hm yea, in the first few races of '67 lotus ran dunlop tires as firestone could not deliver on time or some such. anyway, as i mentioned in another thread (the brabham one), i've been trawling the net for info / pictures on the car / tires and eventually hit a homer - on flickr. it's a goldmine, that is if people actually tag their stuff properly. below is a link to the photostream of one guy going by 'dmentd'

312 f1 '69 photostream on flickr.com by 'dmentd'

he has posted around 60 pretty high resolution shots of the '69 312 f1 there. oddly enough the car is quite different from the gpl model. one thing that immediately struck me (besides the rear end) is that in the gpl dash it's oil pressure, rpm, water temp and fuel (from left to right) - in the car he photographed in '94 water temp and oil pressure have switched places. i've seen this in other pictures of this car as well. so i'm a bit curious. as far as i know there have only been 2 ferrari 312 f1 '69 cars. so maybe this is the 'other' one? ;).
for the sake of being authentic the dials need to be swapped, i guess. luckily they are the same size :D - i just don't know (yet?) how much work changing the actual workings would take, i.e. edit the config or whatnot to swap water and oil...

and thanks to flickr i now have some ok pictures to work with for the tires and the cockpit cloth. just not sure if i should stick with what is in the car now. like keeping the style of the current textures / model with black leather padding and the dials being different or with what the reference pics claim. there are other difference, like the rpm counter that has a top center figure of 8.000 rpm in the real car and 10.000 in the gpl remake. :S

i think i'll stick with the current gpl template and do an accurate version later on ...

#14 MECH

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Posted May 24 2009 - 03:19 AM

View Postsky, on May 24 2009, 12:14 AM, said:

for the sake of being authentic the dials need to be swapped, i guess. luckily they are the same size :D - i just don't know (yet?) how much work changing the actual workings would take, i.e. edit the config or whatnot to swap water and oil...

Shouldn't take that long to swap those.
The needles have positioners which coords can be swapped within minutes work.
You'ld only have to replace the ferrari.3do to have them work in GPL  :)

Note: If the needles need to be rotated to match a gauge that doesn't have a horizontal placing it would require recoding of the exe if i'm not mistaken..not sure though.

Thx, for the link btw. Pity he didn't have those of the wingless 312  :wub:
They already started to look a bit ugly in 69  :spyme:

Edited by MECH, May 24 2009 - 03:28 AM.


#15 Lee200

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Posted May 24 2009 - 02:23 PM

View PostMECH, on May 24 2009, 04:19 AM, said:

Shouldn't take that long to swap those.
The needles have positioners which coords can be swapped within minutes work.
You'ld only have to replace the ferrari.3do to have them work in GPL  :)

Note: If the needles need to be rotated to match a gauge that doesn't have a horizontal placing it would require recoding of the exe if i'm not mistaken..not sure though.

Yes,

The needle size, color, and position coordinates are in the 3DO.

The needle rotation angles are in the .exe.

Lee




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