Jump to content


- - - - -

1965 Formula One Season By C.r.o.m.s. (V2.2.0.2)

1965 Formula 1 One F1 CROMS

  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#21 Jens C. Lindblad

Jens C. Lindblad

    Denny Hulme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 90 posts
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted May 08 2014 - 02:19 PM

After a very quick tryout in short races at Goodwood and Monaco I can see myself returning to this, because I actually quite enjoyed it. :saythat:

Good graphics for cars and tracks, good and tasteful menus, good sounds, although I think I do detect some high revving modern F1 engine sounds faintly in the background when watching a race replay in spectator mode, or am I just imagining this?

On first appearance this mod looks well put together and with appreciation for the subject matter.

In other words, future refinement and improvements will only make it better.

Thank you to the mod team for taking the time to make this mod available to us. :wubit:

#22 Lord

Lord

    Mr. Broken Gearbox

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 192 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Latina, Italy
  • Interests:Formula 1, Football (Soccer), Grand Prix Legends and rFactor
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted May 14 2014 - 04:53 AM

[quote name='dbell84' timestamp='1399497199' post='100244']
Awesome, looking forward to trying it out!



[quote name='Lord' timestamp='1398788856' post='99852']

In loving memory of Enzo Anselmo Ferrari, Bruce Leslie McLaren and Ruud Dingemans

[/quote]

Really nice that you put Ruud in there.  He is missed and Rudy would have loved being mentioned in the same group as Enzo Ferrari and Bruce McLaren.
[/quote]

To be honest, it was almost obliged that we had to include Ruud in that line: he helped us with the development until two days before he passed away, so we had to put him in not only as a beta tester, but as an inspiration to all of us. And yes, he will be missed.

[quote name='David Wright Lo67' timestamp='1399500882' post='100246']
[quote name='Lord' timestamp='1398800476' post='99870']
rFactor has it's own limitations (it's impossible to code brake fading,
[/quote]

rFactor certainly includes brake fade.

I do appreciate the enormous amount of work which goes into producing physics for a mod like this.  You need to do a great deal of research to get the data to put into the physics engine and you need to do a great deal of work to understand how the physics engine works.

I've had a quick look through the new physics files.  A couple of things stood out as possible areas to improve.  The suspension is too stiff and the cars have downforce when in reality they would have lift.
[/quote]

I'm really happy you appreciate our work David, and thank you for your suggestions ;)
If I may ask, how can rFactor simulate brake fade? Not even ISI had implemented that feature in their own cars... I'm really curious about this, it can help us improve this mod even more ;)
Also, I had a really hard time in calculating the lift for these cars, so I had to go guessing parameters from Assetto Corsa's Lotus 49: basically it's the same aerodynamic structure, but I'd be really glad if you could provide some hints on it :)

[quote name='Jens C. Lindblad' timestamp='1399580391' post='100276']
After a very quick tryout in short races at Goodwood and Monaco I can see myself returning to this, because I actually quite enjoyed it. :saythat:

Good graphics for cars and tracks, good and tasteful menus, good sounds, although I think I do detect some high revving modern F1 engine sounds faintly in the background when watching a race replay in spectator mode, or am I just imagining this?

On first appearance this mod looks well put together and with appreciation for the subject matter.

In other words, future refinement and improvements will only make it better.

Thank you to the mod team for taking the time to make this mod available to us. :wubit:
[/quote]

Well, some sounds had to be taken by standard great production cars from the era (HistorX mod mainly) and tweaked because even in F1-SR didn't have a clue on how to reconstruct the sound from such damaged clips from the era: sure, we can use modern Goodwood ones, but other than Honda, BRM and V8 ferrari there wasn't much to go with, but we never used modern F1 cars to take sounds from, no sir ;)

About the presentation we wanted to give it a classic style like GPL has (we've been always fond of that layout) but also making it a bit more modern. Also, we wanted to avoid the ugliness that is carried on by the rFactor UI (seriously guys, it's clunky to mod and a general pain in the butt to be seen when it is in vanilla configuration), so we thought this UI would work and help distinguish our mod among the others :)

#23 David Wright Lo67

David Wright Lo67

    Denny Hulme

  • GTLW Crew
  • 443 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:GPL, GTL and P&G
  • Sim interest:GPL and P&G

Posted May 14 2014 - 05:01 PM

View PostLord, on May 14 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

If I may ask, how can rFactor simulate brake fade? Not even ISI had implemented that feature in their own cars... I'm really curious about this, it can help us improve this mod even more ;)

ISI certainly implemented it although in the modern cars they simulated, brake fade is rarely an  issue, so although modelled you are unlikely to experience it.

The original rFactor hdv files have the following lines

BrakeOptimumTemp=250.0   // optimum brake temperature in Celsius (peak brake grip)
BrakeFadeRange=400.0 // temperature outside of optimum that brake grip drops to half (too hot or too cold)

These lines let you define at what temperature the brakes are most effective, and at what temperature the brakes fade.  In the above example, if the brakes reach 650 degrees, then their braking effectiveness falls to half of the braking force at 250 degrees

If we look at the values you use in the Lotus 33

BrakeOptimumTemp=600.0   // optimum brake temperature in Celsius (peak brake grip)
BrakeFadeRange=1250.0 // temperature outside of optimum that brake grip drops to half (too hot or too cold)

Your brakes do not drop to half effectiveness until they reach 1850 degrees, so they won't fade because they won't get that hot.

In reality cast iron melts at 1200 degrees, steel at 1370 degrees.


BrakeHeating=0.00104 // heat added linearly with brake torque times wheel speed (at max disc thickness)
BrakeCooling=(3.00e-002,3.56e-004)  // minimum brake cooling rate (base and per unit velocity) (at max disc thickness)
BrakeDuctCooling=9.54e-005   // brake cooling rate per brake duct setting (at max disc thickness)

These lines let you define the brake heating and cooling.  If the brakes have insufficient cooling they will reach a high temperature and fade (as defined in the previous lines).

Later rFactor hdv files are more sophisticated

BrakeResponseCurve=(-70,540,700,1730) // First value is cold temperature (where brake torque is half optimum), min temp for optimum brake torque, max temp for optimum brake torque, and overheated temperature (where brake torque is half optimum)

Instead of a single optimum temperature, you can now define a range.  This is more realistic and lets you define a sharper drop off in grip when the brakes get too hot. I should point out these are modern F1 brakes which do get very hot.

BrakeHeating=0.00191    // Heat added linearly with brake torque times wheel speed (at max disc thickness)
BrakeCooling=(3.050e-02,3.820e-04) // Minimum brake cooling rate (base and per unit velocity) (at max disc thickness)
BrakeDuctCooling=0.733e-04 // Brake cooling rate per brake duct setting (at max disc thickness)

These are as before.

BrakeGlow=(750.0,1000.0)    // Temperature range (in Celsius) that brake glow ramps up

This is a new option and allows you to make the brake discs glow.


View PostLord, on May 14 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

Also, I had a really hard time in calculating the lift for these cars, so I had to go guessing parameters from Assetto Corsa's Lotus 49: basically it's the same aerodynamic structure, but I'd be really glad if you could provide some hints on it :)

Data on the amount of lift the cars suffered from is very thin on the ground.  We know is they did suffer from lift and did not generate downforce.  There is an SAE paper indicating an open wheeler racing car without wings produced lift equivalent to 40-50% of the drag, so we can make an educated guess

You have currently defined downforce in the following line

BodyFore=(0.0, -0.200, 0.330)   // aero forces from moving forwards (lift value important, but drag overwritten)

the middle figure is the key.  It is currently negative - this is downforce.  To change it to lift get rid of the minus sign.  As above I'd suggest using a figure of 40-50% of the drag.

Edited by David Wright Lo67, May 14 2014 - 05:14 PM.


#24 samuelw

samuelw

    Denny Hulme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 51 posts

Posted May 16 2014 - 05:00 AM

Thanks for this mod.  Inspired me to reactivate rF.  Since installing found it quite addictive.   AI suprisingly good especially compared to previous rF AI.   Lots of privateer teams I had never heard of.   Cars very driftable!  Associated trackpack gives plenty of places to play.  Special mention must be made of the nice video introduction that goes with the mod.  David Wright Lo67 has always impressed me as very knowledgeable but while the current physics may have deficiencies they are certainly believable, better than the physics for a lot of mods, and fun to drive.  AS mentioned by others the whole thing looks good too.   Thanks for everyone's hard work.
Samuel Weaver

#25 Wee Scot

Wee Scot

    Denny Hulme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 132 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dumfries (Virginia, USA)
  • Interests:GTR2, rFactor, BTB, and (thanks to the GPLEA) GPL!
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jun 02 2014 - 11:53 AM

View PostDavid Wright Lo67, on May 14 2014 - 05:01 PM, said:

View PostLord, on May 14 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

If I may ask, how can rFactor simulate brake fade? Not even ISI had implemented that feature in their own cars... I'm really curious about this, it can help us improve this mod even more ;)

ISI certainly implemented it although in the modern cars they simulated, brake fade is rarely an  issue, so although modelled you are unlikely to experience it.

The original rFactor hdv files have the following lines

BrakeOptimumTemp=250.0   // optimum brake temperature in Celsius (peak brake grip)
BrakeFadeRange=400.0 // temperature outside of optimum that brake grip drops to half (too hot or too cold)

These lines let you define at what temperature the brakes are most effective, and at what temperature the brakes fade.  In the above example, if the brakes reach 650 degrees, then their braking effectiveness falls to half of the braking force at 250 degrees

If we look at the values you use in the Lotus 33

BrakeOptimumTemp=600.0   // optimum brake temperature in Celsius (peak brake grip)
BrakeFadeRange=1250.0 // temperature outside of optimum that brake grip drops to half (too hot or too cold)

Your brakes do not drop to half effectiveness until they reach 1850 degrees, so they won't fade because they won't get that hot.

In reality cast iron melts at 1200 degrees, steel at 1370 degrees.

etc., etc.

Please forgive me jumping in just long enough to say how incredibly helpful and generous David has been over the years with his advice. And always respectful and free of the ego and self-aggrandizement that "afflicts" so many otherwise brilliant sim-modders.

Now I'll go away and leave this thread to the experts!

Oh, BTW, I love this rFactor mod. Thanks ever so much for giving it to us!

Edited by Wee Scot, Jun 02 2014 - 11:54 AM.


#26 Lord

Lord

    Mr. Broken Gearbox

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 192 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Latina, Italy
  • Interests:Formula 1, Football (Soccer), Grand Prix Legends and rFactor
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jun 02 2014 - 01:15 PM

Thanks to you guys: I'm very glad that you like the mod and provide us such valuable feedback, it's this kind of comments that help us develop a better mod - kind and constructive as the greatest part of the GPL community is ;)

@David Wright: wow man! your info is really useful: I've tried the new parameters on the RA271 and... oh boy where do I begin? I've set the lift at 50% of the basic drag and I've set the braking values to

REAR
BrakeResponseCurve=(20,35,450,580)
BrakeWearRate=1.215e-011
BrakeFailure=(1.33e-002,7.20e-004)
BrakeTorque=1190.0
BrakeHeating=0.00060
BrakeCooling=(0.982e-002,2.36e-004)
BrakeDuctCooling=0.529e-004

FRONT
BrakeDiscInertia=1.25
BrakeResponseCurve=(20,35,450,580)
BrakeWearRate=1.215e-011
BrakeFailure=(1.33e-002,7.20e-004)
BrakeTorque=1370.0
BrakeHeating=0.00060
BrakeCooling=(0.986e-002,2.680e-004)
BrakeDuctCooling=0.649e-004

just to make a test: the braking is way better than it was before (and way more dangerous if took to the limit) and the steering response is more believable than before, I felt the car lifting up when hitting a sudden bank on the road, like Flugplatz Kurve. I still have to tune up the brake response curve, but as of now it's a hell of an improvement ;) Thank you so much for the hint :)

#27 Rob burns

Rob burns

    Ludovico Scarfiotti

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 6 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Aug 16 2014 - 08:48 PM

What a fantastic mod. I think it is the mod that will have me remove GPL....do I really need two installations of the 1965 season? The weakest link for me in GPL remained the sound....Windows Vista and GPL sound never worked for me. Then there was the issues of limitations to 7 teams etc...
The rFactor 1965 mod has great sound (but not perfect, that Ferrari V12 lacks the oomph...but the V8 is great!!!) as well as the full range of every team and driver of that season. AI race reasonably well...with the bonus of wet tracks where they belong. This along with the 71 mod, and Historic GT make rfactor still great.
I have had GPL installed on every computer since 2001...but the clock is ticking now,
To the creators of this mod: THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!

#28 TurboMan

TurboMan

    Jim Clark - Gilles Villeneuve - Tazio Nuvolari

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 494 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spain
  • Interests:GPL, GTR2, Music
  • Sim interest:GPL and P&G

Posted Oct 08 2014 - 12:40 PM

Sorry for the off-topic, i'd like to ask if the F1 '65 mod works on GTR2?
I assume it doesn't, so is someone working on any conversion or are there plans to do it?

Best regards :)

#29 Aysedasi

Aysedasi

    Le Mans Addict and GPL Returnee!

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 103 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lymington, New Forest, England
  • Interests:Le Mans, Le Mans and more Le Mans.

    Oh, and GPL as well.
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Oct 13 2014 - 09:45 AM

I'm a simple soul, so I haven't read some of the detailed posts above.  Got myself a new monitor so thought I'd try a sim or two, now that I 'race' very rarely.  Found this mod and the excellent track pack - I really like it  :)

#30 Lord

Lord

    Mr. Broken Gearbox

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 192 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Latina, Italy
  • Interests:Formula 1, Football (Soccer), Grand Prix Legends and rFactor
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Nov 03 2014 - 02:16 PM

View PostTurboMan, on Oct 08 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

Sorry for the off-topic, i'd like to ask if the F1 '65 mod works on GTR2?
I assume it doesn't, so is someone working on any conversion or are there plans to do it?

Best regards :)

Actually no, we aren't planning a GTR2 (or any SIMBIN title for that matter) because of time costraints: of the original team we're pretty much just in three now: me, Flying Dutchman and Ozpata.
For sure I can tell you there is a new rF1 Version in the works: better 3D interiors and bodies, HD textures and some improvements on the physics, like better brake fade, suspension behaviour and overall car handling. Also, we're trying to get permission to convert the new Spa in development for GPL and give it a more distinct "1965 look".
We plan to finish this update soon enough.

After that, who knows? Personally I'd like to get this baby on AC once the sim gets the "Gold" status... being Italian myself, it's kinda obvious :D

View PostAysedasi, on Oct 13 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

I'm a simple soul, so I haven't read some of the detailed posts above.  Got myself a new monitor so thought I'd try a sim or two, now that I 'race' very rarely.  Found this mod and the excellent track pack - I really like it  :)

Thanks man, we appreciate it :)

#31 TurboMan

TurboMan

    Jim Clark - Gilles Villeneuve - Tazio Nuvolari

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 494 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spain
  • Interests:GPL, GTR2, Music
  • Sim interest:GPL and P&G

Posted Nov 03 2014 - 02:30 PM

I see Lord. Thanks for the answer. Would love to see it some day on AC :D

#32 leon_90

leon_90

    Lorenzo Bandini

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,494 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Italy/Puglia
  • Interests:Mainly V12s
  • Sim interest:GPL and P&G

Posted Nov 04 2014 - 09:14 AM

View PostLord, on Nov 03 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:


After that, who knows? Personally I'd like to get this baby on AC once the sim gets the "Gold" status... being Italian myself, it's kinda obvious :D

:) I sincerely hope you succeed in taking your work to AC also. Keep up the good stuff!

#33 Rob burns

Rob burns

    Ludovico Scarfiotti

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 6 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jan 26 2015 - 10:38 PM

I wanted to experiment with the AI files a wee bit...slow Spence down etc. but when I went into the talent files there was only the birthplace, nationality, records of the drivers but no place to adjust composure, aggression, speed etc.
Anybody develop these files to something realistic?

#34 Lord

Lord

    Mr. Broken Gearbox

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 192 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Latina, Italy
  • Interests:Formula 1, Football (Soccer), Grand Prix Legends and rFactor
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jan 31 2015 - 04:47 PM

View PostRob burns, on Jan 26 2015 - 10:38 PM, said:

I wanted to experiment with the AI files a wee bit...slow Spence down etc. but when I went into the talent files there was only the birthplace, nationality, records of the drivers but no place to adjust composure, aggression, speed etc.
Anybody develop these files to something realistic?

Heh, we tried all the time and we still do, but sadly the rF AI (both 1 and 2) is amazingly stupid when compared to GPL's. If anyone wants to help us with that, we'd be more than glad :)

#35 Lord

Lord

    Mr. Broken Gearbox

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 192 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Latina, Italy
  • Interests:Formula 1, Football (Soccer), Grand Prix Legends and rFactor
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jul 07 2015 - 04:17 PM

A new video from the mithical Jeeve79, this time with the new tracks for the trackpack, is in the top post: check it out! :D

EDIT: Looks like I can't edit it, so I'll post it here :)
https://www.youtube....h?v=XRFvi9F4lV8

Edited by Lord, Jul 07 2015 - 04:19 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Sim Racing Links