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Mapping Out Old Circuits


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#31 one2fwee

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Posted Apr 27 2016 - 03:31 PM

View PostPhil, on Apr 27 2016 - 03:13 PM, said:

Interesting pics!  I'd love to have a '60s Indy Circuit in GPL.  Or a pre-Druids, anticlockwise version.  Love the place :)
Bit of trivia: neither Hawthorn Bend nor Stirling's Bend are named after drivers

Yer, you can kind of see how the pre-druids circuit would have been with the road still largely intact - just can't see exactly how smoothly the curve was where it linked up with (what was then) bottom bend, due to road removal.

Haha wow i didn't know that about Hawthorn or Stirling's! What are they named after then?

#32 Phil

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Posted Apr 27 2016 - 05:08 PM

The motocross course had those names pre-war, Stirling's was a local pig farm, Hawthorn just a big shrub near the track :D

Here's a pic looking into Hawthorn Bend in 1960.  Sorry for low quality, it's from Chas Parker's book:

Posted Image


And one of the pre-Druids kidney circuit:

Posted Image

#33 one2fwee

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Posted May 01 2016 - 04:27 PM

Thanks for the pics, they're much better quality than youtube-ruined video :)
Seems like the aerial pics are even more strangely distorted than i thought possible.
The banks of earth really add the the atmosphere and must make it rather interesting if you go off. Oulton park used to be like that too. I guess they got rid of it after they brought in more armco.

I need to find a way to do distortions in photoshop or similar program where you can take two photos, mark "known" points in both of them and then the program will "correct" the other photo to match up with the first one. That would help a lot (though not sure how well it would work, but better than trying to manually piss about with it).

There are even photos of 1940 from google earth. I imagine it was unpaved, either gravel, dirt, or even grasstrack then?

Posted Image

Edited by one2fwee, May 01 2016 - 05:30 PM.


#34 Michkov

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Posted May 02 2016 - 01:12 PM

Initially Brands was grass track, ran the opposite direction than today. IIRC it was paved, and subsequently extented to the current layout over two steps. First adding the Druids loop and later the big loop in the forest.

#35 MECH

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Posted May 02 2016 - 03:33 PM

Never knew brands originated from crop circles :)

#36 jgf

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Posted May 04 2016 - 02:02 PM

View Postone2fwee, on May 01 2016 - 04:27 PM, said:

...

I need to find a way to do distortions in photoshop or similar program where you can take two photos, mark "known" points in both of them and then the program will "correct" the other photo to match up with the first one. That would help a lot (though not sure how well it would work, but better than trying to manually piss about with it)....



There are morphing programs available that will do this but they are quite "fiddly" and, for map applications,  probably no faster than altering perspective, skew, and dimensions in a standard graphics program.  Fantamorph and Morpheus are two popular payware programs, but there are numerous freeware options also.

#37 one2fwee

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Posted Sep 23 2016 - 07:54 PM

Okay, so Leon's post made me curious about Monza.

Sadly, i couldn't find any aerials old enough to show me it with all of the old layout, but i did find one from 1988. This means that Della Roggia and Vialone are unfortunately guesses.

As it shows, Curva Grande, Della Roggia, the straight after Della Roggia and the Lesmos are all different. (In fact the Della Roggia chicane has moved too)

If anyone has any older aerials, please do share!

Click the images for larger versions.

1988
Posted Image

modern
Posted Image

Edited by one2fwee, Sep 23 2016 - 08:53 PM.


#38 davef

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Posted Sep 23 2016 - 08:17 PM

From Tommaso Tommasi's "Da Monza a Indianapolis" 1972

Attached File  MONZA.JPG   514.03K   35 downloads

#39 one2fwee

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Posted Sep 23 2016 - 08:42 PM

Thanks! I think i might have seen that before. There is also one from the 50s, just after the banking was rebuilt (and moved), showing Vedano underneath it - although i might be confusing it with this photo which still has Vedano slightly.

I wish it was a proper aerial though. Maybe it's possible to warp it to match the other images so it's more useful in making a map.

It's the same with kyalami, all I can find is a photo at a massive angle like that one, which although it gives you the impression, it doesn't help a lot. Or rather i'm too ignorant to know how to map something out from that, if it's even possible to do it accurately haha.

Edited by one2fwee, Sep 23 2016 - 08:44 PM.


#40 davef

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Posted Sep 23 2016 - 08:46 PM

Another page on Monza from the same book. :)

Attached File  Monza2.JPG   380.64K   31 downloads

#41 davef

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Posted Sep 23 2016 - 08:59 PM

Same book, Brands Hatch :

Attached File  Brands Hatch1.JPG   289.79K   27 downloads

Attached File  Brands Hatch 2.JPG   308.75K   27 downloadsAttached File  Brands Hatch 3.JPG   383.14K   18 downloads

Those notations I made for the corner names I did when I was in high school in the early 80's :)

Edited by davef, Sep 23 2016 - 09:00 PM.


#42 davef

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Posted Sep 23 2016 - 09:10 PM

Kyalami, same book :

Attached File  Kyalami 1.JPG   390.31K   12 downloadsAttached File  Kyalami 2.JPG   244.96K   13 downloads

#43 one2fwee

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Posted Sep 23 2016 - 09:36 PM

Thanks for taking the time to scan stuff! It's really interesting! Cool shot of Brands :)

I found it!

Monza, supposedly 1955
Posted Image

Taken from here: http://www.the-fastl...php?f=32&t=5673



#44 David Wright Lo67

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Posted Sep 24 2016 - 06:37 AM

View Postone2fwee, on May 01 2016 - 04:27 PM, said:

Thanks for the pics, they're much better quality than youtube-ruined video :)
Seems like the aerial pics are even more strangely distorted than i thought possible.

I'd suggest the aerial pic wasn't taken at  perfect 90 degrees to the track.  The appaent kink in the aerial pic seems to be due to the changes in elevation - there is a marked dip in the track at that point.

I have scale drawings of Monza in the mid 60s.  Not sure what you would learn from them though.  You really need to overlay the sim track with the drawing.  We did this many years ago for the GPL track - its dreadful!!

#45 ginetto

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Posted Sep 24 2016 - 09:48 AM

It is very well known that they changed Lesmos and Curvone in late 80s for safety reason and I remember people got really angry because 2nd lesmo got castrated from the  greatest turn that it was.
Also the hundreds of trees cut down for this reason in the royal park was a big issue back then.
The shape of the main turns curvone, lesmos and parabolica that you see in the '88 map is the same than 67 while papyrus choose to draw a fantasy track.




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