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Mapping Out Old Circuits


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#1 one2fwee

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Posted Mar 13 2014 - 06:30 AM

So, trying to work out how old circuits would have been back in the day is strangely fascinating to me.

I decided to see if i could map out the Grenzlandring and how the joining road junctions have changed, based on the map on this page: http://www.kie4192.d...nzlandring.html

Big image

(Yes it is a bit rough, the pen tool is my enemy :'( )

If anyone is bored or sad enough to want to try this out too, feel free to go ahead!

As usual, research information seems at a premium. Mind you, you lot have much better sources than mine of "randomly searching the internet" hahaha.

Any corrections / comments welcome! (In fact, that's the idea!).

Edited by one2fwee, Mar 13 2014 - 06:44 AM.


#2 Frank_Mueller

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Posted Mar 13 2014 - 11:17 AM

Here the Solitude Ring:

http://www.solitude-...rg/sr02-his.htm

Enjoy

#3 benzman

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Posted Mar 13 2014 - 12:53 PM

Google Earth is brilliant for finding remnants of old tracks and Google Street View can often give a ground level close up of parts of them, including many parts of the old Brooklands.

#4 Fat Rich

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Posted Mar 13 2014 - 04:31 PM

I like the way you can still see the old hairpin at Mexico, it seems to be in the back yard of a warehouse or industrial unit.

Just put Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez into Google maps.

Edited by Fat Rich, Mar 13 2014 - 04:31 PM.


#5 one2fwee

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Posted Mar 14 2014 - 05:09 AM

Ansty

Posted Image

In 1999 it was still very much with us...
Posted Image

However sometime between 2007 and 2010, this happened:
Posted Image

Because, what is history, right?

They even got rid of the tarmac that they weren't even building on just for "landscaping" :/
So the only parts left are the parts outside of their estate.

Still, those parts could be measured and then extrapolated to the aerial photo of the rest of it - I guess the accuracy wouldn't be quite the same but better than nothing.

Does anyone have any photos or footage of when they raced there? I can't find any although i did see a "pay for view" clip on some heritage video site once i think.
Edit - aha here http://www.itnsource...U411070133/?v=1

We really need the winners of these to scan them hahah:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350716096092
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300986787965
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221297773830

Edited by one2fwee, Mar 14 2014 - 05:13 AM.


#6 TvO - guest

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Posted Mar 14 2014 - 06:03 AM

I use http://www.historicaerials.com/ to look at old tracks. We found an old aerial of Trenton Motor Speedway before the dogleg was there :) .

#7 twinpotter

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Posted Mar 14 2014 - 11:15 AM

Always wanted to aerial view the present Donnington track and the older early layout done for gpl and spirit of speed.
So if anybody as got any info on that or can point me in the right direction I would be more than happy.

Edited by twinpotter, Mar 14 2014 - 11:16 AM.


#8 TvO - guest

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Posted Mar 14 2014 - 05:36 PM

Try this:

https://www.google.n...43b6751bb?hl=nl

Info:

http://www.silhouet....s/doningto.html

As you can see, the original 1937 hairpin is still there. As you can also see, it crossed country lines (switch from one aerial photograph to the next) which is why it was never reused when the track opened again.

#9 one2fwee

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 11:21 AM

Thanks for that historical aerials site - only seems to be USA data but still, better than nothing! Doesn't have Watkins Glen mind :(

In terms of Donington, it is a difficult circuit to do because even though the circuit might be similar, the surroundings have changed DRASTICALLY! There were woods and trees and houses and everything.

Also i am not so sure which of these is correct, or even of neither of them are:
Posted Image

Posted Image

Also, i don't know how different the modern circuit was from the rebuilt one - it would be interesting if there were photos / footage of them rebuilding it / just before. I can't find old aerials of the area at all :(

This is the closest i can do for now, a lot is guesswork though:

(as usual, click for bigger)
Posted Image


I mean, even the elevations could have changed a lot due to landscaping (at least of the surroundings). I really have no idea!


Out of interest, how do people do elevations and camber for circuits? It seems like something that would be really difficult to do!

Edited by one2fwee, Mar 17 2014 - 11:22 AM.


#10 Michkov

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 02:46 PM

I've found this site http://www.gpcircuit.../map/interlagos which displays the altitude trace for various modern circuits. It seems they take the data from google maps.

#11 Larko29

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Posted Mar 17 2014 - 08:29 PM

This site allows you to do something similar, although data is only relevant to how it is today

http://www.geocontex...04/profiler/en/

#12 Mark Jones

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Posted Mar 18 2014 - 03:24 AM

View Postbenzman, on Mar 13 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

Google Earth is brilliant for finding remnants of old tracks and Google Street View can often give a ground level close up of parts of them, including many parts of the old Brooklands.

I found you can follow most of the old Sachsenring track using google earth.  The new track has been built over the top of about where the old pits were.

#13 one2fwee

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Posted Mar 27 2014 - 04:41 AM

The problem for those sites is the elevation changes don't seem so "fine-grain" or subtle.
For example, if you go to the mountain at cadwell park, there doesn't appear to be a great amount of elevation change, and yet you would expect there to be, both from photos and because cars and bikes get airborne there.

For example, compare this image:
Posted Image

To these profiles:
http://www.gpcircuit...map/cadwellpark
http://www.geocontex...140322850036296

The second shows the location and shows the opposite of what you expect - a gradual down gradient and then slightly up, then an even more gradual down!! What???

Edited by one2fwee, Mar 27 2014 - 04:43 AM.


#14 one2fwee

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Posted Mar 27 2014 - 05:10 AM

Due to Sergio's release of N├ępliget, it got me interested in look at that circuit to see how that was too. Most of it seems still there, though judging from the maps of the time, some of the roads for the circuit (and inner ones in the park itself) have changed.

Here are maps from the time period.
Posted Image

Posted Image

Also http://www.kia.hu/ko.../nepliget02.jpg though this seems like it might be even earlier?! And quite rough.

The biggest example i have marked on this map - red is how the roads are today and blue is an estimate of what they might have been back in the day. I have read that it may have changed due to the construction of that electrical transformer substation, which seems quite likely.

Posted Image

The last corner seems like it might have changed too? Or at least, the roads around that point seem different even if the corner itself is the same.
Judging from the maps there were more roundabouts or at least pathways to circular openings for statues etc back in that time.

If anyone has any photos of those areas or an historic aerial photo that would be interesting.

#15 sergioloro

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Posted Oct 06 2014 - 06:32 PM

it would be great to had aerial pictures or maybe military maps of that era, some maps of that old circuits are not 100% accurate so sometimes is just about guest how track looks on those days.




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