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Gpl --> Rfactor 2?

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#31 sergioloro

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Posted May 29 2017 - 12:37 PM

that sounds good :)

#32 John Woods

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Posted May 29 2017 - 12:50 PM

View PostLord, on May 29 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

I'd propose something similar, but a bit more restrictive: one model of his choosing and he'll make the physics. Then we'll check them and see if he did a good work. If he did, we'll give him all the help and 3D assets he needs :)

If that is the case for the purposes of testing and development why look at GPLEA cars at all?
Besides, as I understand there has never been any permissions granted by anyone associated with GPLEA ever, and all but one I think is even accessible and has stated they will never give permissions. (Surprised no one has mentioned this so far).

Postipate92,
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:D

Edited by John Woods, May 29 2017 - 01:02 PM.


#33 Postipate92

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Posted May 29 2017 - 01:32 PM

Thanks John Woods!

Bit bummed how harsh the feedback is here. Yeah I understand this game is important to you and this game seems to have best community I have ever seen. My mean are not to offend anybody so thats why I tried to kindly ask permission. rF2 has some great potential (like huuge potential) with offline races that no modder has yet used. Sadly havent yet found anyone willing to make these cars, so hoping this conversion would wake up some people for it

About the conversion I made. Its based on rf1 version and I redid all the engines with the data I found here on forums (+weights) and on ultimatecarpage (btw those infos are bit different on some cars) Didnt found any info of the torque peak or curves of these engine so I used 1975 cosworth as somekind of reference point. If you have this info would love to get.

Btw, Been fan of GPL when I was bit younger. My third sim after Grand Prix 1 and Rally Trophy. Never really tried any mods and was shocked how much different cars/tracks and awesome videos you guys have. Hoping to get something like this to rF2 someday

Edited by Postipate92, May 29 2017 - 01:33 PM.


#34 Lord

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Posted May 29 2017 - 01:56 PM

Well Postipate, the thing is that we're really a lot passionate of our sim, so situations like this do happen. But don't worry, we don't mean to be harsh for the sake of being harsh :)

#35 Pete Gaimari

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Posted May 29 2017 - 01:57 PM

The problem with all the games/sims that make 60's F1 cars is they just make one or two cars and that's it. No 60's tracks and no full field of cars. No championship.

That's what makes GPL so good. We have it all. Not just the original 67 F1 cars, but all the mods too. If you're going to have success you need to copy GPL and give it all to us. Spec racing 1-2 67 cars is lame.

#36 Gui

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Posted May 29 2017 - 03:31 PM

View PostPete Gaimari, on May 29 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

The problem with all the games/sims that make 60's F1 cars is they just make one or two cars and that's it. No 60's tracks and no full field of cars. No championship.

That's what makes GPL so good. We have it all. Not just the original 67 F1 cars, but all the mods too. If you're going to have success you need to copy GPL and give it all to us. Spec racing 1-2 67 cars is lame.

And thus why we need the community. An embracing community, elitist ones only do disservice as seen with certain examples.

#37 Pete Gaimari

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Posted May 29 2017 - 03:51 PM

I'm not stopping anybody from doing anything. Meanwhile, i'm content racing GPL.

#38 jgf

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Posted May 29 2017 - 09:43 PM

View PostPete Gaimari, on May 29 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

The problem with all the games/sims that make 60's F1 cars is they just make one or two cars and that's it. No 60's tracks and no full field of cars. No championship..... Spec racing 1-2 67 cars is lame.

Not just with '60's F1.  We were teased for ages with screenshots and "WIP" threads for the 55F1 mod for GTR2;  finally it was released ...with one Mercedes, and promises the rest were near completion.  The rest never materialized but someone cloned that one car so you had a handful of pastel colored Mercedes with which to run a spec race.  (Knowing the GPL 1955 mod was somewhere in the future, this lasted about a week on my system.)

On a similar note, I've always wondered why the vast majority of F1 mods for GTL/GTR2/rfactor are "League Editions" - a euphemism for spec racer series.  Many promise a "historic" or "AI" version will be released "soon", but I've yet to see one appear.  (This is so pervasive, only with F1 mods, that I don't even bother downloading them anymore.)

#39 Gui

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Posted May 29 2017 - 11:58 PM

View Postjgf, on May 29 2017 - 09:43 PM, said:

On a similar note, I've always wondered why the vast majority of F1 mods for GTL/GTR2/rfactor are "League Editions" - a euphemism for spec racer series.  Many promise a "historic" or "AI" version will be released "soon", but I've yet to see one appear.  (This is so pervasive, only with F1 mods, that I don't even bother downloading them anymore.)


Often times due to lack of knowledge of car information and specifics with the "best excuse" being that everybody will only pick X car online, blabla. The best mod I've played to date was the 1998 CART series, and when I raced online I picked the third or fourth best car, and had the most fun - including winning a league. It's usually the much slower/uncommitted/poor drivers who complain about different levels. Anyway, Postipate was working on the 1975 mod with both League and Historical versions, and he is interested in doing a correct historical version of 1967 so that's an awesome thing.

#40 David Wright Lo67

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Posted May 30 2017 - 01:27 AM

View PostJohn Woods, on May 29 2017 - 12:50 PM, said:

Besides, as I understand there has never been any permissions granted by anyone associated with GPLEA ever, and all but one I think is even accessible and has stated they will never give permissions. (Surprised no one has mentioned this so far).

Postipate92,
Welcome to SRMZ.
:D

This isn't true.  The GPLEA gave permission to convert a number of their tracks.  I was also involved in the early stages of the Slimjim conversion, as Slimjim initially contacted me at RSC on how to contact the GPLEA for permission .  The GPLEA were initially prepared to give permission.  However, conversion of GPL cars to rFactor was problematic resulting in the initial conversions being of poor quality.  As I understood it, it was this together with the "relaxed" attitude to the realism of the physics which were the reasons permission was ultimately withheld.

Later there was a Russian guy (Alex?) who overcame the model conversion problems to produce cars for F1C which matched the quality of the GPLEA originals.  He produced a series of 60s F1 mods for F1C which were done with permission to the best of my understanding.

Edited by David Wright Lo67, May 30 2017 - 01:33 AM.


#41 jgf

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Posted May 30 2017 - 04:49 AM

View PostGui, on May 29 2017 - 11:58 PM, said:


Often times due to lack of knowledge of car information and specifics....

But should this be endemic to F1 mods?  Other than mods replicating real spec racer series, I've never installed any others that didn't provide individual physics for the different type cars.  Also, though this is controversial, I daresay 99.99% of us could not tell how accurately the physics are modeled - does the real car have spring rates twice what is modeled?  does the real car have more, or less, downforce?  So we rely on performance - if a Minardi is winning races, something is wrong.  And relative physics can accomplish that:  as long as each type car does realistic lap times, handling is what we expect (not necessarily know), and the teams perform accurately relative to each other, we enjoy the mod.  Much more than pretty models with the same physics slapped on each.


View PostGui, on May 29 2017 - 11:58 PM, said:

...with the "best excuse" being that everybody will only pick X car online ...

That extends beyond mods.  I recall the early days of GTR2 when people complained everyone showed up online with the Ferrari 575.

#42 John Woods

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Posted May 30 2017 - 05:26 AM

Thanks David for correcting my comments.
Do recall I think a recent post somewhere here where someone had contacted a GPLEA member about permissions and the reply was "I never give permissions." Didn't seem important to anything at the time and can't imagine finding it again.

My opinion all along tho has been that rights and permissions is altogether a bad thing that does nothing except put a lock on innovation. Its a vestige of arrogant imperial prerogative.

If permissions had been a part of Grand Prix Legends from the start we would not be here now.

Edited by John Woods, May 30 2017 - 05:27 AM.


#43 Pete Gaimari

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Posted May 30 2017 - 07:20 AM

It would seem if the physics were accurate to the real car we should be able to take a setup from the real car and use it on the virtual car and have it work.

It seems this can be done on the Porsche 991 Cup car in iRacing. Not sure if there are others.

Edited by Pete Gaimari, May 30 2017 - 07:21 AM.


#44 John Woods

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Posted May 30 2017 - 08:13 AM

That would be ideal.
Plus we would expect this given accurate asphalt and either way it should all correspond to Milliken's formulas.

It took me a long time to switch from Bruce Johnson's Lotus, (with several nice add-ons by others). Took awhile to get used to the look of the GPLEA Lotus. Now find Bruce's pages are no longer on-line?

Edited by John Woods, May 30 2017 - 09:08 AM.


#45 jgf

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Posted May 30 2017 - 05:32 PM

View PostJohn Woods, on May 30 2017 - 05:26 AM, said:

...
My opinion all along tho has been that rights and permissions is altogether a bad thing that does nothing except put a lock on innovation. Its a vestige of arrogant imperial prerogative....

The permissions issue has become a bone of contention throughout the gaming community.  At one extreme are those who think you should never, ever, be allowed to edit, update, or convert someone else' files without their written consent (doesn't matter if the person has disappeared from the community, or even passed away);  at the other extreme are those believing that after a certain time with no appearance/contact from the original creator others should be allowed to work on those files to keep them "alive" (though it is common courtesy to give full credit for the original work).

This has become particularly acrimonious in the MS Flightsim community, where I've been accused of promoting piracy because I see nothing wrong with sending others my registration number for a payware navigation program which can be downloaded from numerous sites ...but whose developer took down his website and disappeared ten years ago.  Likewise I am not allowed to upload any of the dozens of photoreal 2D panels I've created over the years, simply because I cannot provide permission for all the gauges used (at one point my gauges folder contained over 9000 gauges, dating back to FS98 days;  I've no idea where most came from, much less who originally created them).

And we all know a particular race sim site where merely mentioning the existence of a dread "unauthorized conversion" will get you severely castigated, if not banned (indeed this site probably has more banned members than any half dozen other race sim sites combined).

I await the day when I'm chastised because I quoted someone without their permission.  Already you cannot download an image from the internet and later repost it somewhere without being questioned if you have permission to upload that photo.  People now think everything they say or do online is copyrighted material, and I think it is time the internet as a whole re-evaluate the entire concept of ownership and permission.

This is not saying that if you create something and upload it you forfeit all rights, nor that anyone may do as they please with it, but that we should devise a workable concept of "abandonware".  If John Dough created a nice track for N2003 ten years ago, and no one has seen or heard from John Dough since, why shouldn't someone be allowed to convert that track to a newer sim?




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