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Newbie With Keyboard


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#1 Pippen

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Posted Mar 06 2017 - 07:38 AM

Hi.

Just got my GPL CD and installed it via GPL-Installer. I raced Monza for about 6 hours and the best I got (with just 3L fuel) is 1:32,97, using the standard setup. Checking out my AI opponents I got a shock since they are about 4s faster °.°, I'd have no chance in a season campaign. Could the keybaord be a real disadvantage? What times can one make with just the keyboard (let's just take Monza as an example)? My next move would be to look at the setup, maybe one can twist things and get more out of it, any links for special keyboard-friendly car setup's? Did anyone ever won a title with just the keyboard?

#2 John Woods

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Posted Mar 06 2017 - 08:18 AM

View PostPippen, on Mar 06 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

Hi.

Just got my GPL CD and installed it via GPL-Installer. I raced Monza for about 6 hours and the best I got (with just 3L fuel) is 1:32,97, using the standard setup.

After only 6 hours this is a very good time imo.

Checking out my AI opponents I got a shock since they are about 4s faster °.°, I'd have no chance in a season campaign.

Users have lots of options about how they want to use Grand Prix Legends. If you just keep racing, the AI will adjust their times as you improve and will place you in the middle of the pack. You can adjust the AI, refer to Lee200's AI tutorial for info.

Could the keybaord be a real disadvantage?
What times can one make with just the keyboard (let's just take Monza as an example)?

Depends on your goals...there are lots of keyboard users.
Many of them are faster than wheel users.

My next move would be to look at the setup, maybe one can twist things and get more out of it, any links for special keyboard-friendly car setup's?

Calibrate your display, then learn to make your own setups, jmho.

Did anyone ever win a title with just the keyboard?

It is very, very difficult to win a title without tweaking the AI to slow it down. Then what is the point?
Grand Prix Legends is a simulator if you are not racing on-line.
So jmo the only credible title win would be an on-line championship, which I would guess has been won by a keyboard user at some point in the past.
But no idea really if that has happened.

If you finish a championship in the middle of the pack that is itself quite an accomplishment.


Welcome to SRMZ and Grand Prix Legends!
:D

Edited by John Woods, Mar 06 2017 - 08:19 AM.


#3 Pippen

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Posted Mar 06 2017 - 08:52 AM

Thx, John. Are there any keyboard-friendly-setups out there and how can I find them? I drive Lotus, by the way (because that's by default and I like to be able to go over 300 km/h :).

#4 John Woods

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Posted Mar 06 2017 - 10:26 AM

Think maybe the fastest top end car is the Eagle?
They are all pretty close tho.

A keyboard setup that you like is "any setup that works for you."
There was a time when almost everyone was running a CRT monitor sitting in a chair using keyboard, joystick, or wheel and pedals.
Think back then the joystick users were the fastest, but that's just a guess really.
Pretty sure this is what the pre-release beta testers were doing, using wheel and pedals most likely.
So their setups imv can now be considered very naive and unsophisticated.

Anyway, calibration was not such a critical issue in the early days because everyone had a similar rig.

Once calibration significance became understood as a setup factor, it became apparent using a setup created by someone else would likely not work well without some tweaking. Still its good to know what others are doing with setups if it helps understand why/how to adjust your own.

To calibrate default driver view use FOVed and GPLSA.

Thread about calibration.


You might consider using a game pad?


If not already, check out gpllinks.org for more info/links.

Look in the Technical Section.

:D

Edited by John Woods, Mar 06 2017 - 10:38 AM.


#5 Stefan Roess

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Posted Mar 06 2017 - 12:35 PM

I have never used a Keyboard to control GPL.

Found this:

There is a tool called
GPL Key Master
By Otavio Silveira
http://srmz.net/inde...?showtopic=4128

And aaccording to another old thread Otavio must have posted a package of Keyboard setups somewhere. Maybe you can find it by using the forum's search function.

Edited by Stefan Roess, Mar 06 2017 - 12:36 PM.


#6 mcmirande

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Posted Mar 06 2017 - 02:12 PM

Welcome to GPL! And... don't discard buying a wheel. And joining an online league :)

Cheers. Marcos

#7 Pippen

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Posted Mar 06 2017 - 02:22 PM

I played a bit with the setup but it didn't improve me. Still all my best 4 part times together make 1:32,97, but best single full lap is now 1:33,16. Since there maybe guys here who also use the keyboard, they may tell me their times and if they are better what makes the difference. Right now I use the standard-setup (again) and auto-shift.

#8 Cookie

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Posted Mar 06 2017 - 02:57 PM

The only good keyboard driver I know is Raoni Frizzo of GPLBrasil, maybe he can give you some advice...

And yes, why not try a gamepad? Should be way easier than keys...

#9 Bob Simpson

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Posted Mar 06 2017 - 03:31 PM

View PostCookie, on Mar 06 2017 - 02:57 PM, said:

The only good keyboard driver I know is Raoni Frizzo of GPLBrasil, maybe he can give you some advice...

http://srmz.net/inde...p?showuser=2303

#10 John Woods

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Posted Mar 06 2017 - 03:33 PM

Some users get on track and find being fast seems to be a natural talent.
Most users do not share this experience.

Keyboard drivers as I understand are not slower than those who use controllers.

Part of the adventure and reward is dialing it all in, a feature few other racing sims offer to the extent possible with Grand Prix Legends.
The more dialed in, the faster you are without trying.

Really wild guess, the average time for a novice to go from 133s at Monza down to consistent 129s, with similar improvement on the other Papy tracks, is six months to a year?

It just takes a long time to figure out how to shave a 10th and to have a big bunch of them add up to a few seconds.
Diligence over time improves reaction time and this alone might make you a second faster on any track.
And by then you will know more how to drive and to make your own setup.

Does the car seem to be turning in too fast, too early, too much? It is oversteering.
Too slow too late not enough? It is understeering.
Fix it.

A poorly calibrated display will cause the impression of understeer or oversteer and so the user will compensate for this by adjusting the setup to incorrect or inconsistent variables, or if only using some other user's setups might become discouraged that none seem to help. The purpose of calibration is to zero out the effects otherwise, so changing setup variables then has credibility.

:D

Edited by John Woods, Mar 06 2017 - 03:55 PM.


#11 twinpotter

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Posted Mar 06 2017 - 05:21 PM

I agree entirely with John.
For me it took time. Even though I am still no Jim Clark. I only race offline and have never used a keyboard.
Started with a gamepad and progressed,later,to a decent wheel.
What I learned along the way is that gpl is a long learning curve.
For me patience and just gathering experience. Just getting a feel for the cars and the way they drive and react. Once I got that figured,I started to post some ok times.
As well as that the other main lesson is setups. Learning to adjust and re-adjust as well as learning the reason to tweak.
I remember getting something bang on in the setup and wow ! I was propelled from last and into the midfield,during practice.

TP 😃


#12 Pippen

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Posted Mar 06 2017 - 06:05 PM

View Posttwinpotter, on Mar 06 2017 - 05:21 PM, said:


I remember getting something bang on in the setup and wow ! I was propelled from last and into the midfield,during practice.

TP

What did u change?

My main point was to lower the tire pressure, because I figured better grip, but it didn't work. Next focus was on the ratio of gears.

Another question: Can u guys drive the first (right) curve after start full throttle? Because I cannot.

#13 Lyddell

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Posted Mar 06 2017 - 07:05 PM

To answer your Curva Grande question (for which the short answer is no):

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/20124557   quoting from 2/3rds of the way down:

The son of a farmer in the Scottish borders, Clark was a humble, quietly spoken man. But he had a dry wit, and he was well aware of the level of his ability.
A favourite anecdote is of a time Stewart was telling of a terrifying moment he had had when his throttle stuck open at Monza's Curva Grande - now just a bend in a straight and easily flat out; then a properly challenging high-speed corner.
Stewart related to his audience how he had somehow just made it around. There was a chorus of appreciation. Then, with immaculate timing, Clark said: "Are you saying, Jackie, that you normally lift off there?"

#14 Lyddell

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Posted Mar 06 2017 - 07:54 PM

I'm still driving using the keyboard
[My GPL Rank signature reminds me that I went manual on 26th Jan 2006]

Having seen John Woods "consistent 129s" as a challenge I looked up my 67 ranking history at Monza:
It took me 6 weeks to lower 1:32.08 to 1:30.56
[the benchmark is 1:30.20]
Then went manual & posted 1:30.02 the next day.

Having gone 'green' I then moved on to Spa or the Glen returning only to Monza10k

So to this evening:
Over six runs of 5 laps & tweaking (& retweaking) my existing, unforgiving Greger Huttu style setups
I produduced 1:30.10 followed by 1:30.11, in run 5, as my best
then, in run 6, successive laps of 1:29.90, 1:29.73, 1:30.00

So whilst they're not consistent 129s I can do low 130s consistently, dipping down into the 129s if I chance it successfully
&
With thanks to Pippen & John
Have shaved a ¼ of a second off my 67 Rank time to +9.6

Maybe in another 10 years ...

Edited by Lyddell, Mar 06 2017 - 07:57 PM.


#15 PTRACER

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Posted Mar 06 2017 - 08:17 PM

I was pretty good at keyboard driving back in the day. The last time I did a fast keyboard lap at Monza was in 2003, when I did a 1:31.6. I'm sure I would be faster now as I went over a second faster than the GPLRank benchmark for Silverstone just two years ago.

Anyway, the key to driving fast with keyboard is to not make "big" movements. Very smooth driving, keeping the car as straight as possible under braking and acceleration is important. So when you're braking for a corner, you want to be using your left and right steering keys to keep the car straight, otherwise the game will reduce the effectiveness of the braking so the tyres don't lock up. During cornering, you shouldn't hold the steering key down all the way, but 'feather it' around the corner. If you have to use full steering lock you've gone in too fast.

On some circuits, like Silverstone, braking deep into the corners is actually advantageous because the car starts to turn for you and you get better corner entry speed. I'd say not to try these things yet until you get more experienced. Just don't be too fast into the apexes and be very, very smooth. Your laptimes will come down for sure.

About setups - changing too much from the default is not a good idea. The setups you find online are for wheel setups and they will be too loose, so you'll end up being slower. All you can do from the default is reduce the ride height, make sure the tire pressures are equal and keep to either 55% or 56% brake bias.

Edited by PTRACER, Mar 06 2017 - 08:18 PM.





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