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Mapping Out Old Circuits


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#46 one2fwee

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Posted Sep 24 2016 - 01:44 PM

Yes David, that is what i realised eventually too. It makes you realise you can't really trust aerial photos fully. You need to look for ones that are as "square on" as possible. And of course they are always patched together from multiple photos which is never perfect.

Regarding what you say about GPL Monza - Ginetto's pics in this topic really show it! http://srmz.net/inde...?showtopic=8167



Ginetto - are you sure that you didn't mean the late 70s? From what I can see, the run-off was added in 1979, after Peterson's accident:
1978 and onboard
1979

From what I can see, it looks like the trees outside the track were cut down to make way for the barriers being pushed back. It doesn't look like they necessarily altered the track at this time, although i could be wrong. So basically, the barriers that you see in the 1988 pic have already been pushed back - in fact you can see the gravel trap at the second lesmo.

Then, later, after 1994, they altered curve grande, della roggia and both lesmos and the straights in between, moving them inward and changing them, rather than simply just moving the barriers back.


Are you combining these events together, or is there something else that I am missing?

I assume that Curvone = Curva Grande? :)

Also, do you have any idea which thread Leon is referring to in this topic? He said you posted about Vialone (Ascari) not being flat out and something to do with the correct angle of the corner (to be honest i am not surprised that GPLs is wrong haha). I am more surprised that the corner was not flat out though.
I guess that must have been referring to 66 or 67 or later cars, because I would be amazed if 65 ones couldn't! Even for 67s, it's a surprise, but then if the GPL one is really that wrong then maybe not.

Oh, and just in case anyone wants to see the original 1988 image, it's here

Thanks!

Edited by one2fwee, Sep 24 2016 - 06:12 PM.


#47 Lalethor

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Posted Sep 24 2016 - 02:14 PM

View Postone2fwee, on Sep 24 2016 - 01:44 PM, said:


...

I assume that Curvone = Curva Grande? :)
...

Yes, original name is Curva Grande, or Curva Biassono, friendly Curvone

Same thing for Ascari, it's Vialone or Curva del Platano, more names for only one turn ( I'ts named Ascari after the death of Alberto in that point in 1955)

#48 gliebzeit

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Posted Sep 24 2016 - 03:17 PM

.... and we will soon have that track on which poor Ascari met his end.

#49 Andreh

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Posted Sep 24 2016 - 04:05 PM

https://www.youtube....h?v=yD9b9wkBBHk

this http://theracingline...Monza1955G.html ? Is it like a secret Spa 67?

RIP campione!

#50 davef

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Posted Sep 24 2016 - 08:27 PM

View Postgliebzeit, on Sep 24 2016 - 03:17 PM, said:

.... and we will soon have that track on which poor Ascari met his end.

:)

https://youtu.be/8p0N8GGcQL8

#51 gliebzeit

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Posted Sep 24 2016 - 10:00 PM

Yeah, that one!  ;)

#52 one2fwee

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Posted Dec 22 2016 - 06:46 PM

Okay I promised ages ago to do Bremgarten and I've finally done it.

Not completely happy with it as I couldn't easily get the historical aerial to match up with the modern one (both seem quite distorted). Still, until i can get a program where you can mark points and it corrects / distorts an image accordingly then I can't really improve it.
It does give some idea though.

The aerial I found was from this site: http://leonardasf1.n...Bremgarten.html

Here is a mirror, from 1949:

Posted Image

And here is google earth, the 2004 image:

Posted Image


Notice that one of the other pictures provided in the linked site has wrong information - a lot of the roads they list as "still existing" are actually new, altered roads and not the same as before.

The bits I am most unsure about due to distortion are from Passerelle Eichholz to Jordenrampe and the bit from Glasbrunnen Rampe to Forsthaus.
However, matching it up with the aerial as best as possible is enough to give me an idea that some of the breaks in the trees kind of give an impression of where I think the road went (matched up with the shape of the road in the historical aerial).

Forsthaus corner itself has definitely been changed a lot when the road network was altered. It was not as tight and with more grass verge on the inside.


You can't really see the subtleties of what I'm trying to show from the pictures, so here is a kmz file to import into google earth so you can see it up close. Switch to the 2004 image of the area too.

If anyone wants more info, just ask - I didn't want to make the post too long winded.

Attached File  Bremgarten_2.zip   4.62K   9 downloads

Edited by one2fwee, Dec 22 2016 - 07:08 PM.


#53 Bo Bruce

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Posted Dec 23 2016 - 09:28 AM

thank you! a monster project i'm sure :o

#54 one2fwee

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Posted Dec 23 2016 - 02:39 PM

Well, it's nothing compared to actually making a track! And this is all part of the effort and research they have to put in. I still have no idea how they do the elevations and everything, it all seems quite daunting!

#55 one2fwee

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Posted Aug 09 2017 - 09:51 AM

Just a heads up to trackmackers - if you turn on 3d view in google earth (and aren't browsing historical imagery) then certain places now have much higher detail 3d imagery.
I don't know the resolution or how it compares to other lidar data available but it seems a lot better than was there before.

It's only in certain places but you can tell which places quite obviously.

For example the big dip section with steep banks either side is still there (although if you go into street view you'll see it's heavily overgrown):

https://www.google.c...t/data=!3m1!1e3

With Bremgarten it really helps you see the gaps / lower trees to get an impression of where some of the roads went.


Also google earth pro is free now - although they are trying to move people over to some in browser chrome version but from what I can see from that one it's more casual and you can't view historical imagery as far as i can tell. So i'd stick with google earth pro desktop application.

You can get pro here: https://www.google.c...ts/desktop.html

I don't know how easy it would be to get the data into gpl but it's a good reference at least and useful for other sims.


Examples of other places with it include Montjuic, Pedralbes, most of the Sachsenring, most of 30s Brno (and all of postwar Brno), Syracuse, Mexico pre-desecration, 30s and modern Hockenheim, Gavea, Kyalami (although obv not much use without an 80s aerial pic too), 50s Albert Park etc, etc
Of course with those, things have obviously changed a great deal.

Edited by one2fwee, Aug 09 2017 - 09:52 AM.





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