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Correct Shifting Technique?


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#31 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Sep 29 2017 - 06:17 PM

Pretty sure with the Lotus you have to go down through all the gears.

#32 TurboMan

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Posted Sep 30 2017 - 10:49 AM

Then probably all the cars required sequential shifting. I guess i can apply this to F1 '55, F1 '65, F1 '69, Sport Cars '67, etc.

I will have a look myself, i'm too young and grew up with synchronised gearboxes and have no idea of crash gearboxes. More info is always welcome :) .

Edited by TurboMan, Sep 30 2017 - 10:49 AM.


#33 leon_90

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Posted Sep 30 2017 - 11:18 AM

"Dog engagement:

A dog engagement box is what you will commonly find in race cars and on most sequential gearboxes. This type of gear usually has 3 to 6 ‘dogs’ on each gear and there is a lot of free space for them to engage this means there is normally quite a lot of play when in gear and why you often see race cars juddering forward and backward when going down the pitlane.
When you are driving fast this is not an issue as you are pushing on one side of the dog for acceleration or braking rather than hovering in the middle, this is also why they are not suitable for daily use on the road. When shifting gears because of the space between the gears normally there can be up to a 900rpm difference in gear speeds and the gear will still go in, because of this you do not need the clutch.
To make a gear change you need to reduce the load on the dogs so that it can be released, this is normally done by just lifting the throttle on the up change. To change down a gear there is already a reduction in load that is sufficient you just need to blip the throttle so that you do not lock the rear wheels or cause unnecessary wear on the gearbox."

Racing gearboxes might have been hard to skip a gear I think. But that's just an assumption..

Edited by leon_90, Sep 30 2017 - 11:18 AM.


#34 hagapito40

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Posted Sep 30 2017 - 11:46 AM

For me most reasonable thing to do in GPL if you have a H shifter is single clutch H&T
https://www.youtube....nel=TopGear1986

about skipping gears...i believe that even when was possible on some gearbox, a rule of thumb is to don´t do it to avoid possible mistakes in gear selection, and to use engine braking.
On this video Howthorn use al the gears on shifting down, even at low speed braking.
https://www.youtube....annel=DukeVideo

my cuestion is...if i have clutch pedal on gpl with secuencial shifter...can i have manual blip?

#35 TurboMan

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Posted Sep 30 2017 - 01:10 PM

Ok leon, that clear up many things, thanks. Will definitely stop skipping gears.

hagapito thanks to you too. I bought a G27 and a TH8A shifter some months ago and what i've been doing is single clutch press on upshifts, and single clutch press combining with H&T on downshifts. I remember reading this back in 2013 when the thread was created and so i've been doing.

View PostDavid Wright Lo67, on Nov 25 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

I bought Weekend of a Champion the other day about the 1971 Monaco GP.  Stewart uses a single press of the clutch on both upshifts and downshifts.

That would seem correct, however, i think in 1966 Grand Prix movie i saw double clutching at some shifts, that makes me doubt again. When to use single press clutch or double clutching is a mystery to me.

View Posthagapito40, on Sep 30 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

...

my cuestion is...if i have clutch pedal on gpl with secuencial shifter...can i have manual blip?

Someone with more GPL knowledge may correct me, but i think it's not possible. The only way i found to disable auto-blip is to use GPLshift (as stated earlier in this thread), but this requires an H-shifter i think. I once used a DFGT with the clutch on a button and the sequential gear stick integrated on it and it always autoblipped on downshifts.

#36 leon_90

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Posted Sep 30 2017 - 02:03 PM

View PostTurboMan, on Sep 30 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

That would seem correct, however, i think in 1966 Grand Prix movie i saw double clutching at some shifts, that makes me doubt again. When to use single press clutch or double clutching is a mystery to me.

The correct sequence when downshifting is -clutch-neutral (release clutch)-blip-clutch- for every gear you go down. This is because if you do not release the clutch before blipping the crankshaft and transmission shaft won't properly synchronize. If I remember correctly :D

Edited by leon_90, Sep 30 2017 - 02:04 PM.


#37 TurboMan

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Posted Oct 01 2017 - 04:23 AM

I understand, but in the sequence "-clutch-neutral (release clutch)-blip-clutch-" you use the clutch twice, and Stewart used it once. In Grand Prix movie they use the sequence you describe. Also, in Moss' video hagapito posted he uses the clutch once. Then both should be histocally correct. But when to use the different techniques? Maybe on long races use double clutching to minimise gearbox wear? :think:

#38 David Wright Lo67

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Posted Oct 01 2017 - 06:02 AM

View PostTurboMan, on Oct 01 2017 - 04:23 AM, said:

But when to use the different techniques? Maybe on long races use double clutching to minimise gearbox wear? :think:

I'd suggest it was down to personal preference.  They could and did shift without the clutch if necessary. And the ZF box in the Lotus and some of the Coopers had synchromesh.

#39 Michkov

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Posted Oct 01 2017 - 09:36 AM

I tend to go with the method outlined here. Right from the manufacturer so I take it to be the right way to go about, at least for dogboxes. Is there a list matching cars to gearbox types btw? I know there are a couple of different types across all mods, but never bothered to investigate all the cars.

#40 Remco Hitman

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Posted Oct 01 2017 - 09:53 AM

Here's Depailler using double declutch in 1978:



#41 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Oct 01 2017 - 10:08 AM

Here's the correct way to do it demonstrated by Chris in GPL and the way I do it.

https://www.youtube....h?v=CjURCM9lkcE

#42 hagapito40

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Posted Oct 01 2017 - 11:31 AM

You just read my mind Pete and Remco, i was looking for those videos!!! :P

#43 tjc

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Posted Oct 01 2017 - 11:39 AM

I remember seeing those videos ages ago, great videos. I also heel `n toe the same way as shown in the video posted by Pete. I`ve never really tried the double declutch tbh...

#44 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Oct 01 2017 - 11:45 AM

I always assumed when double clutching was mentioned it meant what Chris is doing on the downshifts. No need to double clutch upshifts.

#45 tjc

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Posted Oct 01 2017 - 11:57 AM

Depailler is pressing the clutch in twice when downshifting in the video above... I take it that`s double declutching? Chris is only dipping the clutch once when downshifting in the video...




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