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Correct Shifting Technique?


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#1 Wozza_UK

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Posted Sep 12 2013 - 02:02 PM

Hi everyone,
I'm confused. What is the correct way to shift gears in a 1960s Formula 1 car?

This is a subject where it seems it is very difficult to get a correct answer. There are many "experts" on forums and many I'm sure don't know know what they are talking about while others give contradictory information. Therefore I thought I would ask here as you lot seem a lot more mature than the kids on iRacing etc. :)

I have been doing some research and it seems F1 cars from the 60s (as well as other Formula-type cars all the way up to the present day) use a gearbox know as a "dog-box" - sometimes "crash-box". This is a name derived from the "dogs" inside the box that select gears. One of the properties of this type of gearbox apparently is that you don't always need your clutch when selecting gears. Is this true or false? The reason I ask is because in driving simulators I like to do things in at least a semi-realistic manner. To me this is part of the enjoyment. I bought a clutch and an H-shifter for this exact reason.

I have read contradictory reports. Some people say you don't need to use the clutch AT ALL apart from on the start line, some say you don't need to clutch on upshifts but DO need to do so on downshifts. Is there anyone here who can give a CORRECT answer?

My second question: does GPL use an auto-blip? If so, is there a way of turning it off?

Thanks in anticipation.

#2 maddog

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Posted Sep 12 2013 - 04:09 PM

There was a time, when all cars used a "dog box"  Then synchro mesh was developed,which made gears more durable, but less easy to mesh unless the clutch is used.  A racing gearbox isn't expected to last 100.000 miles, so quick meshing with less messing is preferred.

You can change gear on any car without using the clutch - it's just a matter of matching the revs to the roadspeed.  Changing up only requires the engine revs to drop to the next gears road speed.  Changing down requires a blip on the throttle, and is less easy to manage precisely.  When straight ( dog ) gears are forced to mesh at the wrong speed, a strain is put on the drivetrain, and things can break.  So clutch use is more common on downshift.  And I imagine endurance racers use the clutch up and down.  Double declutch is a more complex version of this, and used to ensure smooth changes.

This is 2nd hand information, as I've not raced 'doggedly.' :)  One of our real life racers, might wish to correct me, if my assumptions are misplaced.  And a clutch enhanced wheel user, can tackle your blip.

Edited by maddog, Sep 12 2013 - 04:11 PM.


#3 ducwolf

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Posted Sep 12 2013 - 05:17 PM

The crash box is a sequential gearing. One important mechanical part of it, that moves the gearing wheels looks like a dog bone. So it was also called dog box.
But after watching hundreds of onboard videos of the 60th cars I didn't found one car with it.
So I would recommend to use Your H-shifter and clutch with GPLshift and forced clutch on to have it " ... in at least a semi-realistic manner.).
I see no historical reason for shifting without clutch and it will lead into trouble in some leagues because it causes an advantage
during acceleration compared to the default GPL paddle / keyboard shifting with an artificial delay of around 0,222 seconds.
Some leagues force You to use a tool that adds an artificial delay also to the H-shifter without clutch.

In this video You can see how Graham Hill shifted. Sometimes so fast as if he didn't used the clutch.


Edited by ducwolf, Sep 12 2013 - 05:18 PM.


#4 Andy Clegg

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Posted Sep 13 2013 - 02:09 AM

I always used to double de-clutch, going down a gear. That was blipping throttle while the clutch is disengaged (in neutral) to get the revs up so that the next gear would slot in smoothly, slow car down to 3000 rpm and then rev to about 4000 rpm and slot into lower gear. I used to heel and toe while changing down, (half of my right foot on brake, the other half on accelerator). I didn't double de-clutch going up a gear too much, but when changing up when gearbox is in neutral. let clutch out and then back in to select higher gear. Don't rev engine when going up a gear.
Nowadays modern cars don't need this apparently but I do this sometimes anyway, especially when overtaking (dropping a gear to pass the car in front). I drove a MG Midget with a dog box and struggled to change down, but I'd only just started driving then.
I've never driven a car in competition but I felt I was quite a competent driver.

Edited by Andy Clegg, Sep 13 2013 - 02:10 AM.


#5 Frenchy

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Posted Sep 13 2013 - 02:42 AM

Not sure about the rest of it but GPL does not have auto-blip only auto-clutch which you can't turn off. As stated above you can simulate forced use of the clutch with GPLShift.

have fun
David

#6 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Sep 19 2013 - 01:11 PM

GPL has auto blip on downshifts.

#7 Wozza_UK

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Posted Sep 20 2013 - 01:08 PM

OK, two people, Frenchy and Pete Gaimari, with different answers. I wonder who is right?

For the record last week I did an experiment in iRacing. I turned auto-blip on and off to see the difference. With it ON you can definitely see a change in the way the rev needle jumps - it definitely jumps higher and the revs seem to linger for a while.

Now, in GPL the needle behaves like it does in iRacing with auto-blip OFF. Is the blip hidden from us in some way? Unfortunately I'm not a good enough driver to be able to tell just by doing some laps.

#8 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Sep 20 2013 - 01:28 PM

GPL acts the same way as iRacing for me if blip isn't turned off in GPLShift. By default GPL blips the downshifts.

#9 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Sep 20 2013 - 01:44 PM

These are the default downshift blips.

https://www.youtube....h?v=cjSNPWYiH48

#10 Remco Hitman - guest

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Posted Sep 20 2013 - 03:33 PM

AFAIK it only blips when the downshift command is given. If you use a shifter, the downshift command is bypassed. Hence, no blip.

#11 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Sep 20 2013 - 04:49 PM

Yes, and you have to use GPShift, and choose that option.

#12 Wozza_UK

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Posted Sep 21 2013 - 01:10 PM

Can someone tell me where in GPLShift the option for auto-blip is? I tried finding this before but couldn't. It's certainly not called auto-blip or anything like that.

I am using shifting_behaviour_1 with a Thrustmaster THRS shifter, for the record.

Thanks.

#13 Bob Simpson

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Posted Sep 21 2013 - 01:49 PM

Once you enable GPLShift for any H-shifter, the auto blip is disabled in GPL.  The only way to get auto-blip is to use the paddles, or in GPLShift, set Shifter_Model = none

#14 Wozza_UK

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Posted Sep 22 2013 - 02:26 PM

View PostBob Simpson, on Sep 21 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

Once you enable GPLShift for any H-shifter, the auto blip is disabled in GPL.  The only way to get auto-blip is to use the paddles, or in GPLShift, set Shifter_Model = none

Ah, thanks. No wonder they call you the answer man! ;)

#15 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Sep 23 2013 - 09:27 AM

Even though I said the same thing multiple times.




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