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Gpl Aims/goals You Want To Achieve


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#61 KARTM

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Posted Nov 12 2019 - 05:16 AM

View PostPTRACER, on Nov 11 2019 - 05:13 PM, said:

The only problem with the visual editor is that I couldn't export any of the files directly to LP.

Plus if I use MS Excel to open the TXT file previously exported I can calculate things more precisely.

I guess the best thing to do would be to just edit the problem files myself and release them for download. Monza and Mexico are the only real bad tracks.
theres so many …..  and in so many mods   ,for once there some really late braker at goodwood  at the end of lavant straight , but one fix at a time :)

#62 ginetto

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Posted Nov 12 2019 - 06:14 AM

View PostPTRACER, on Nov 11 2019 - 05:13 PM, said:

The only problem with the visual editor is that I couldn't export any of the files directly to LP.
Plus if I use MS Excel to open the TXT file previously exported I can calculate things more precisely.
I guess the best thing to do would be to just edit the problem files myself and release them for download. Monza and Mexico are the only real bad tracks.
In AI Edit you can open race.LP (it actually opens automatically when you open the TRK or the DAT of a track) and edit any of its numbers (you can cut/paste anything you want or use AI edit functions as Scale, Adjust, Set value, Ramp...) then save it and will be race.LP without doing any conversions.

Attached Files



#63 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Nov 12 2019 - 08:01 AM

In the gpla67 file. Down at the bottom there's...,., braking_efficiency_coeff. What does that do to the AI braking if you change that setting?

Edited by Pete Gaimari, Nov 12 2019 - 08:03 AM.


#64 PTRACER

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Posted Nov 12 2019 - 08:18 AM

View Postginetto, on Nov 12 2019 - 06:14 AM, said:

In AI Edit you can open race.LP (it actually opens automatically when you open the TRK or the DAT of a track) and edit any of its numbers (you can cut/paste anything you want or use AI edit functions as Scale, Adjust, Set value, Ramp...) then save it and will be race.LP without doing any conversions.

Well that makes editing the racing line much much easier! Thank you ginetto!!!

View PostPete Gaimari, on Nov 12 2019 - 08:01 AM, said:

In the gpla67 file. Down at the bottom there's...,., braking_efficiency_coeff. What does that do to the AI braking if you change that setting?

It increases or lessens their ability to brake for a corner. So if you set the figure really low, they will not be able to brake as hard as the LP file tells them to and they will overshoot the corner or maybe run off into the scenery. Not sure  about setting it too high. Opposite effect maybe?

#65 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Nov 12 2019 - 08:26 AM

Maybe they wouldn't brake at all if set too high. That would be fun to watch. :)

#66 PTRACER

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Posted Nov 12 2019 - 09:13 AM

Here are the results of my Monza AI edit. My driving is a little atrocious, but what do you think?

https://www.youtube....h?v=KoqWw8HFijQ

Edited by PTRACER, Nov 12 2019 - 09:19 AM.


#67 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Nov 12 2019 - 09:43 AM

I'm going to sound negative again. You shouldn't ask me what I think. I'll just say this.

You passed the whole field in about 7 min. They're too slow. :)

#68 PTRACER

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Posted Nov 12 2019 - 09:48 AM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Nov 12 2019 - 09:43 AM, said:

I'm going to sound negative again. You shouldn't ask me what I think. I'll just say this.

You passed the whole field in about 7 min. They're too slow. :)

They are too slow at the start for sure. I was in what, 7th place by the first corner? Plus I was driving at hotlap pace, I can't drive like that for 2 hours...

#69 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Nov 12 2019 - 10:27 AM

Yes, but most of your passes were on the straights. Also, it looks like Jimmy is still braking late. I'd like to see your AI brake earier and have more acceleration and top speed. Then they'd give you a good race.

You were driving good.

Edited by Pete Gaimari, Nov 12 2019 - 10:29 AM.


#70 PTRACER

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Posted Nov 12 2019 - 11:06 AM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Nov 12 2019 - 10:27 AM, said:

Yes, but most of your passes were on the straights. Also, it looks like Jimmy is still braking late. I'd like to see your AI brake earier and have more acceleration and top speed. Then they'd give you a good race.

You were driving good.

Part of that is the AI speed modifier for attempting an overtake. If the AI decides to pass you around the outside of Parabolica, it'll send the AI into the corner 20mph faster than is possible by human players.

I agree with you though. Perhaps:-

- Later braking at Parabolica
- Sooner braking into Lesmo 1 and lower cornering speed
- Harder acceleration out of Lesmo 1 and 2
- Harder acceleration out of Parabolica

Ideally I'd like to prevent AI from going around the outside into the first corner and Lesmo 1. It wouldn't be possible to do that in real life or in the game as a human player. There needs to be more side-by-side down into T1 as well, they are too single file now. Ginetto???

(P.s. Running the 2005 pass1.l67 and pass2.l67 files there)

#71 Lee200

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Posted Nov 12 2019 - 11:18 AM

I think what you guys are discovering, if you didn't already know, is that the AI calculations are really complex.  There are many, many factors that govern their behavior.

I've always treated the .lp speed values to be goals rather than absolute requirements.  (Kinda like the Pirates of The Caribbean where the pirate's code is treated more like a guideline than an actual code of conduct.  :) )  During acceleration, quite often the AI are unable to achieve the .lp speed goal.  I assume this is often because the car's power to weight ratio is too low to achieve the necessary acceleration.  During deceleration, the braking coefficient comes into play which may result in the car not being able to stop as quickly as the .lp speed value would indicate.

Also remember that all the track .lp files were built from a human player replay.  The replay speeds are used in the .lp and their values depend on how fast the human player is, which car he drove, and which mod.  It's really a wonder that a hot lap replay driven in a '67 Lotus F1 can still be effective for use by an F2 or sports car in an entirely different mod.

#72 KARTM

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Posted Nov 12 2019 - 12:27 PM

just my two cents , the main problem to fix on most track is that they brake too late at the end of some straights , and even were youre way faster then  them  ,they manage to hit you in the back in braking zone

#73 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Nov 12 2019 - 12:43 PM

My AI seem better to race than what i'm seeing in your videos. Try the default AI and just change the braking_efficiency_coeff. setting. Maybe try 0.75000. Lets see what that looks like.

#74 PTRACER

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Posted Nov 12 2019 - 06:06 PM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Nov 12 2019 - 12:43 PM, said:

My AI seem better to race than what i'm seeing in your videos. Try the default AI and just change the braking_efficiency_coeff. setting. Maybe try 0.75000. Lets see what that looks like.

I'm using whatever AI the V2 Historic Carset uses. It seems my gpl_ai.ini and gpla67.ini both use 0.80000. I even reverted back to the original GPL .LP files for Monza (dated 1998). I think the issue with dropping it to 0.75000 based on memory of last time, is that the braking points will start at the same place but the cars will not slow down as much into the corners so they will just overshoot the apexes. I can try it later though and see if it changes anything positively.

By the way, one thing I did try before I went to bed was to change some of the Monza track.ini settings. I cranked up the LP modifier to from 1.00160 to 1.00350 and the dlong top soeed to 2.4375. After that, the leaders were much more closely matching my speeds.

I guess one problem might be that I'm using a slightly modified "alien" setup and I have a GPL rank of -57...

Edited by PTRACER, Nov 12 2019 - 06:08 PM.


#75 PTRACER

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Posted Nov 12 2019 - 06:13 PM

View PostLee200, on Nov 12 2019 - 11:18 AM, said:

I think what you guys are discovering, if you didn't already know, is that the AI calculations are really complex.  There are many, many factors that govern their behavior.

I've always treated the .lp speed values to be goals rather than absolute requirements.  (Kinda like the Pirates of The Caribbean where the pirate's code is treated more like a guideline than an actual code of conduct.  :) )  During acceleration, quite often the AI are unable to achieve the .lp speed goal.  I assume this is often because the car's power to weight ratio is too low to achieve the necessary acceleration.  During deceleration, the braking coefficient comes into play which may result in the car not being able to stop as quickly as the .lp speed value would indicate.

Also remember that all the track .lp files were built from a human player replay.  The replay speeds are used in the .lp and their values depend on how fast the human player is, which car he drove, and which mod.  It's really a wonder that a hot lap replay driven in a '67 Lotus F1 can still be effective for use by an F2 or sports car in an entirely different mod.

Yeah it seems that each AI parameter has at least 2 or 3 others which are designed to fight against it, so it's hard to know exactly which direction to go in. I assume this AI power-to-weight ratio is hardcoded into the .exe and unrelated to the player physics?

I think the best way to get the AI to reach this speed goal on the Monza straights is just to get them to accelerate a little earlier. I can probably achieve that by increasing some of the LP numbers more dramatically - at the Parabolica for example, they hold their speed too long mid-corner before accelerating onto the main straight, while I already have my foot down.

#76 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Nov 12 2019 - 06:35 PM

I thought you were using the Papy 67 F1 cars. It's all I drive now. I believe the AI are different in the V2 mod. Plus, you use Pavel's settings and I have no idea what they are.

#77 KARTM

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Posted Nov 13 2019 - 06:02 AM

View PostPTRACER, on Nov 12 2019 - 06:13 PM, said:

Yeah it seems that each AI parameter has at least 2 or 3 others which are designed to fight against it, so it's hard to know exactly which direction to go in. I assume this AI power-to-weight ratio is hardcoded into the .exe and unrelated to the player physics?

I think the best way to get the AI to reach this speed goal on the Monza straights is just to get them to accelerate a little earlier. I can probably achieve that by increasing some of the LP numbers more dramatically - at the Parabolica for example, they hold their speed too long mid-corner before accelerating onto the main straight, while I already have my foot down.
exactly they must accelerate sooner ,and  starting  to brake sooner too like real driver

#78 KARTM

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Posted Nov 14 2019 - 06:33 AM

one way to do it ,on some track the result is ok . its to increase the dlong_speed_maximum  in the track.ini  wich improve the speed in the straight , and at the same time to increase the AI speed setting in the GEM to slow  them,   if you find the right balance , they become much more realistic

#79 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Nov 14 2019 - 02:46 PM

Oops! I posted the wrong times. What I posted is too slow. As an example Monza should be 1.27.65 for qualifying.

#80 PTRACER

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Posted Nov 14 2019 - 07:44 PM

Sorry to the author, but the V2 Historic AI aren't the greatest. The field spread is about right in qualifying, but actually Clark is always so far ahead of 2nd place, and unreliability is so high that by the 10th lap, half the field has already broken down.

Luckily, only the LP files affect the AI lines. I decided to recreate the Race.LP file from scratch using my own replay since the lines needed to be improved. I am in the process of modifying them in Excel now to get better performance and braking points correct. After driving a test race with the AI last night I would say there is a huge improvement. Slower in the corners, faster out of them, and much more fun to try and outbrake.




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