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Ferrari 312-67 (Assetto Corsa)

Ferrari 312 1967 Assetto Corsa Sim F1

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#21 one2fwee

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Posted Sep 22 2017 - 01:07 PM

Look at these from 1967, the rear wheels especially:
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

This from Zandvoort may look a little wider, they might have run wider rears there or it could be the angle tricking me - would need to see more photos.
Posted Image

Edited by one2fwee, Sep 22 2017 - 01:08 PM.


#22 one2fwee

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Posted Sep 22 2017 - 01:09 PM

Then compare to:
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

Looks more similar to the wider wheels they were using in later years:
Posted Image

#23 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Sep 22 2017 - 01:52 PM

I don't see it? Especially, if you count the tread lines. Zandvoort for sure is wider. You can't blame Papy/AC for copying the widest wheel/tires used.

#24 Gui

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Posted Sep 22 2017 - 02:18 PM

View Postone2fwee, on Sep 22 2017 - 01:09 PM, said:

Then compare to:
Posted Imagethe wider wheels they were using in later years:
Posted Image



https://www.youtube....h?v=Pig6xZdptL4


Pete, I completely get your point. rF2's BT20 is an aberration but you'll also find they'll say the one reference car they used, out of many possibilities that better represent the car or a season, was "exactly like that." No comment on whether the modeler knew or cared about the car as I don't know him, but restoration efforts are often non-representative.

#25 Fat Rich

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Posted Sep 22 2017 - 09:54 PM

I guess if Ferrari or Classic Team Lotus say something like "we'll give you all the technical details, and every dimension you need from the real car"..... but then give details of a 49B with the non syncro adjustable ratio gearbox and wider tyres, or the museum 312 that isn't like the one they actually raced in 67, it's very hard to say "Um, no thanks, we'll make one by collecting and studying old photographs instead!" :)

The attention to detail is something unique to the GPL community, the modders here spend a huge amount of time getting information together and drawing on the huge amount of historic racing knowledge there is on this forum, a game studio like Kunos or ISI have to get a product to market ASAP and pay their staff.

Edited by Fat Rich, Sep 22 2017 - 09:55 PM.


#26 Art-J

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Posted Sep 23 2017 - 04:54 AM

View Postone2fwee, on Sep 21 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

Quote

And let's not pretend to be "holier than thou" about model accuracy, as we've got a couple of franken-car abominations in GPL too (yes, Lola T222, I'm looking at you).

Could you elaborate on this with specific cars and inaccuracies? I don't wish to cause offence - I know the amount of effort modders put in and the community here goes to far greater lengths to ensure historical accuracy than the other simracing modders (and especially commercial developers). I just wish to inform myself and learn about history and also what to look out for :)

Sure, sice we all went off topic here anyway, I can continue with this one I guess ;).

Don't want to offend GPL car modders either, as the fact they build cars at all using prehistoric and clumsy track making tools is a miracle and brutal determination excercise in itself. However, whoever made the T222 back in 2011-12, certainly didn't have any scale drawings for the car (I've been looking hard for these myself, no luck!) and the final result obtained probably by eyeballing the photos was... meh.

I've made a few screenshots, fired up photoshop, and I'll let the comparison photos do the talking. To cut long story short - in GPL model, the wheelbase is way off, the whole car is too short, too tall and too narrow, also take a look at the whole rear section and note it doesn't have the sufficiently "voluptuous", wide and rounded rear fenders, which were THE trademarks of the real T220/222 series. Moreover, wheels that are too big and too wide apart make these issues even more visible. I mean, the main design features are all there allright, so it's clear what this 3D model was supposed to represent, but dimensions and proportions are just all over the place... It makes me sad, 'cause the T222 is my favourite "best of the rest" Can-Am car and the GPL model doesn't do it justice visually.

Unfortunately, my basic experiences with AutoCad3D and SolidEdge are useless for GPL trackmaking tools, so I do't think I could help with reshaping the model to make it better.

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#27 one2fwee

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Posted Sep 23 2017 - 12:07 PM

Yes I see what you mean. It reminds me of how the 3.0 GPLEA Lotus 49 nose bugged me by how it didn't look right, until it was fixed in the 3.1 version.

But yes, modelling things will never be perfect unless they are scanned, so it is always going to be dificult.
And you have to bear in mind that it will always be more difficult in GPL because of the old engine and limited polycount - particularly an issue with incredibly curvy cars like the Ferrari 330 P4!

And the community certainly puts a great amount of effort and care into their mods, especially considering the limited resources / contacts available to them compared to the major developers.

#28 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Sep 23 2017 - 02:54 PM

The iRacing Lotus 49 should be perfect since they had the real car to measure.

#29 Art-J

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Posted Sep 24 2017 - 11:51 AM

While we're talkign about Lotus wheels, what always has made me cringe about AC's rendition were the outer rings of the rims, which are just too "thick" and are THE most "off" aspect of that 3D model for me. They don't fit any spec of the car, historic or not and they make my eyes bleed whenever I look at them :D. Pity, because I probably spend as much time (if not more) watching replays as driving the damn cars. Even Project Cars 49s were better in this regard.

Still like driving it though. I wonder it Kunos guys are going to update the 3D model for any upcoming sequel of their sim (if it's going to feature L49 that is).

#30 one2fwee

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Posted Sep 25 2017 - 09:15 AM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Sep 23 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

The iRacing Lotus 49 should be perfect since they had the real car to measure.
Well again, it depends what car they scanned ;)

I think they may have the same problem - what they scanned is used for historical racing and therefore has replica tyres (well if you think about it you aren't going to get any old car with the same spec tyres it raced on unless they never changed what width / size they used and people still produce accurate replica tyres).

For example:
Posted Image

Silverstone 67:
Posted Image

I do agree though, it is a much better approach to actually scan the cars - I don't get why AC don't do this considering they have scanning equipment.

Really, the best approach would be to try and find an 'as original as possible' car, scan it and then work out what is different and adapt the changes to turn into the correct spec for the years you are trying to simulate.

The coolest way to do it would be to simulate a particular season and have the car evolving over different rounds. Of course that would require by far the most research but it would be deep and interesting and a great history lesson.

#31 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Sep 25 2017 - 09:40 AM

When you think about it. Only GPL needs to be accurate because they're the only ones replicating the 67 season. The rest of them are doing modern spec racing on modern tracks. Historical racing if you will, or expensive club racing.

#32 one2fwee

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Posted Sep 25 2017 - 04:07 PM

Don't remind me that no one wants to depict period historical racing in the correct era... :(

(Although not entirely true, RF2 and AC have historical tracks).

I almost feel like modders should try and licence the RF2 engine and make their own GPL or sports car sequel game. They could put everything under fictional names to avoid licencing issues of course. Still, the amount of effort required is no mean feat.
When you look over at RD though, the community in general doesn't seem the most supportive unless it is modern f1 :(

#33 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Sep 25 2017 - 08:54 PM

I've driven the historical tracks they have. Not sure what era they are, but it's not 1967. Not that it matters when you're spec racing.

The bottom line is what does it matter if the cars aren't correct when nothing else is? You worry about the tire size on the Lotus and nobody complained about the speedometer in the Lotus 49, but me. As a matter of fact they argued with me that it was correct. That was at least a couple of years ago. Is it fixed yet? The speedometer is where the fuel pressure gauge should be.

Edited by Pete Gaimari, Sep 25 2017 - 08:55 PM.


#34 Gui

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Posted Sep 25 2017 - 09:48 PM

They're like Trump, they'll argue and spin the :crap: out of anything instead of accept feedback.

#35 Stefan Roess

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Posted Sep 26 2017 - 03:15 AM

Most posts here are about the look and not about the feeling you get when you drive the Ferrari 312/67.
How do you guys like the physics of the Ferrari 312/67?
Is it worth getting the Ferrari DLC?

#36 tjc

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Posted Sep 26 2017 - 03:54 AM

Good question Stefan... is it worth getting?

#37 Fat Rich

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Posted Sep 26 2017 - 07:40 AM

I think so, the 312 feels like a better balanced Lotus 49: slightly smoother power delivery, a bit easier to drive generally but ultimately a little slower.

The 330 P4 is great fun and quite forgiving, although to be fast you won't want to slide it too much.

250 GTO is a real challenge, it really only turns on the throttle, so it's super important to get the car stopped and turned in at exactly the right place, and then power out of the corner with just the right amount of gas and very little steering lock. Very satisfying, will take a while to master.

The 288 GTO is also much more fun to drive than I was expecting, handles great for a road car and very enjoyable.

The new fangled stuff is good too if you like that sort of thing, the 2017 F1 is complicated with it's hybrid stuff but moves about on it's tyres in quite an enjoyable fashion, same story with the Schumacher F1.... more fun than modern F1 cars in most sims.

The road car is OK, probably what you'd expect from a modern paddle shifter. People seem to really like it but it didn't really grab me.... but I didn't spend much time getting to grips with it.

4 fun historic cars for a few euros seems like a good deal to me, the other modern cars are good too.

#38 Stefan Roess

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Posted Sep 27 2017 - 04:37 AM

Thx Fat Rich for the sum up!

That sounds really good. :)

#39 Fat Rich

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Posted Sep 27 2017 - 06:10 AM

Seems like Assetto Corsa 2 is going to happen sometime with night races and rain:

https://www.youtube....h?v=0fQaBamFZxA

Also some modder stuff about latest update, getting the console and PC versions aligned, next DLC will be FREE :o :)

Edited by Fat Rich, Sep 27 2017 - 06:11 AM.


#40 leon_90

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Posted Sep 27 2017 - 10:52 AM

View PostFat Rich, on Sep 27 2017 - 06:10 AM, said:

next DLC will be FREE :o :)

And it's gonna have the Alfa 33 Stradale ;)





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