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Right Foot Braker Needs Canam Setups


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#16 Warren Hall Jr.

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Posted Dec 30 2013 - 04:12 PM

I was going to write something to explain having too much lock in the diff, but JMF did it for me. In slippery conditions you can actually take your tires down to idle speed just by getting off the gas. Tires that are not rolling have no cornering power. It's a classic double edge sword or too much of a good thing.
Warren

Edited by Warren Hall Jr., Dec 30 2013 - 04:13 PM.


#17 Wile E. Coyote

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Posted Dec 30 2013 - 11:07 PM

Last time when I had to keep a foot on both the throttle and brake to keep the car stable under braking my steeringwheel actually was broken, it took me at least a few months to figure that out.
But then you should also have noticed on the other cars, not just CanAms.

Edited by Wile E. Coyote, Dec 30 2013 - 11:07 PM.


#18 Bob Simpson

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Posted Dec 31 2013 - 10:13 AM

As far as I understand the diff settings, it seems to me that the coast side locking vs. not locking issue is dependent on several other things.  But let me add that I’m certainly no expert and I might be completely wrong on the following.

If you use a low locking, towards xx/85/1, one wheel will stay rolling with traction when one slides under engine braking.  That non locking wheel will provide stability to rear of the car.  That probably works best when there is heavy engine braking and one wheel is very likely to lock up.

If you use high locking, towards xx/30/6, as long as both wheels are turning, both will provide braking force during engine braking, making the rear of the car more stable. As soon as the rear wheels lock up a bit, the rear will be more unstable.

I remember in my development of driving skills when I realized that you can control the car with the throttle, especially mid turn when the traction circle is maximized.  Just lifting can change the attitude/angle of attack and lateral position of the car if done well.  Too much lift causes too much change and too little lift doesn’t get the desired effect.

In cases where you’re not driving fast enough to maximize the traction circle, or if the car has too little power or engine braking, the wheels at the rear will never lose traction and there will be little effect with throttle manipulation.  Or else you have to exaggerate the throttle use.

Warren explained to me that cars need to be set up to create a car that is just unstable enough to allow us to control the car.  A super stable setup or a super unstable setup won’t let us use the throttle, brakes and steering to control the car enough.  So it somewhat depends on how you drive (heavy inputs and throttle and brake use or not), what car you’re driving and what track you’re at.

#19 leon_90

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Posted Nov 17 2017 - 05:31 PM

What about ride height? What would you guys recommend? (necro-thread I know)

#20 Michkov

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Posted Nov 18 2017 - 07:15 PM

As low as possible? You can tune the balance with ride height, but you got ARBs and springs for that. I usually leave them as low as possible the track will let me get away with and leave it at that.

#21 leon_90

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Posted Nov 19 2017 - 05:09 AM

View PostMichkov, on Nov 18 2017 - 07:15 PM, said:

As low as possible?

I don't know.. I feel like you can make these cars ride really low in GPL.. Too much I think. I know they have downforce and hard springs, but still 6cm (2.3 inches?) high?

Edited by leon_90, Nov 19 2017 - 05:10 AM.


#22 Michkov

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Posted Nov 19 2017 - 02:22 PM

View Postleon_90, on Nov 19 2017 - 05:09 AM, said:


I don't know.. I feel like you can make these cars ride really low in GPL.. Too much I think. I know they have downforce and hard springs, but still 6cm (2.3 inches?) high?

Not sure I understand what you are trying to say.

#23 leon_90

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Posted Nov 19 2017 - 02:52 PM

View PostMichkov, on Nov 19 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

View Postleon_90, on Nov 19 2017 - 05:09 AM, said:

I don't know.. I feel like you can make these cars ride really low in GPL.. Too much I think. I know they have downforce and hard springs, but still 6cm (2.3 inches?) high?

Not sure I understand what you are trying to say.

That I feel like making them run so low could be harmful. But so far it seems like it works good.

#24 Michkov

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Posted Nov 19 2017 - 04:10 PM

Hence the "as possible", if you are bottoming out through a dip so you cant steer anymore it's too much. Like everything in terms of setups it's a trade off. I usually start as low as possible, and use the springs and rubbers to keep it the chassis of the ground. If I find the springs are getting too hard for my liking I'll raise the ride.

#25 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Nov 20 2017 - 09:22 AM

I stopped running low heights quite awhile ago. I try and stay off the bump stops. It seems to make the car more predictable. Especially, on bumpy tracks.

Oops! Never mind. I didn't realize this was the Can Am forum.

Edited by Pete Gaimari, Nov 20 2017 - 09:24 AM.


#26 Andy Clegg

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Posted Nov 20 2017 - 10:42 AM

From memory John Surtees Lola T70 in 1966 was set at 24 inches.

#27 leon_90

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Posted Nov 20 2017 - 10:55 AM

View PostAndy Clegg, on Nov 20 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

From memory John Surtees Lola T70 in 1966 was set at 24 inches.

that seems excessive.... I believe realistic values for these cars should be around 9 to 12 cm, which should be 3.5 to 5 inches above ground.

#28 John Woods

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Posted Nov 21 2017 - 07:33 AM

Maybe Andy meant 2.4 inches?

As I understand, (questions and guesses), there is no replica accurate mechanical suspension model that would, as on real cars, limit motion if the car were set too low.

The GPL suspension is most similar to a shopping cart with one vertical spring above each wheel, so there is no binding up or levering as control arms etc reach the limits of their travel.

This is why we set wheel rate rather than spring rate.

The unreal advantage of this is being able to run very low ride height without issues that would effect real cars.



:D

Edited by John Woods, Nov 21 2017 - 08:09 AM.


#29 leon_90

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Posted Jan 28 2018 - 04:29 PM

View Postleon_90, on Nov 17 2017 - 05:31 PM, said:

What about ride height? What would you guys recommend? (necro-thread I know)

Managed to get an answer from Forghieri (indirectly) :D the 712 rode 8-9 cm at the front / 10-12 cm at the back

Edited by leon_90, Jan 28 2018 - 04:48 PM.





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