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#21 nes

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Posted May 24 2008 - 05:56 AM

Hi Nigel, I told you before that this it´s a good tool for editing GPL.
Now we change some *.3do in the main track, and don´t need to change it in every layer (distance view or section track). This program do it selves when you change it on one place.
But this don´t happen with the mips too.
When you change a *.mip (ex: asphalt.mip to asphal2.mip) in a section of track, it don´t change automatic in the others distance points. Must to change step by step on every distance view.
Can this be changed, maybe can be faster editing, if it´s posible to solve this.

thx in avance

_nes

#22 npattinson - guest

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Posted May 24 2008 - 06:14 AM

View Postnes, on May 24 2008, 11:56 PM, said:

Now we change some *.3do in the main track, and don´t need to change it in every layer (distance view or section track). This program do it selves when you change it on one place.
But this don´t happen with the mips too.
When you change a *.mip (ex: asphalt.mip to asphal2.mip) in a section of track, it don´t change automatic in the others distance points. Must to change step by step on every distance view.
Can this be changed, maybe can be faster editing, if it´s posible to solve this.
I think that's something I'm unlikely to change in the forseeable future, RaceCon will probably stick to simple changes that affect only the current node.

Nigel

#23 nes

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Posted May 24 2008 - 10:47 AM

Ok, thx Nigel.
Still it is a wonderfull tool  :)

#24 Luna

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Posted Jun 01 2008 - 07:50 AM

Can I make a few requests for additional features? ;)

When editing vertex colours:
- an option to use hexadecimal values, and/or a 0-255 scale.
- the ability to change all vertex colours at once for each polygon, i.e enter an rgb value and all vertex colours for the current poly are set to this value.

Also...
- edit poly colour.
- edit texture co-ordinates.
- change poly type, and keep any values in tact. E.g change an 81f to an 820 and keep all texture-cords and poly colour; or change textured to untextured and keep poly colour. Not sure how complicated this would be to implement.. :unsure:
- edit offsets for child nodes.


BTW I've just noticed that the plane selectors are 'upside down' - what you have as the "far child" is actually the "near child" and vice versa; similarly the front/back children for flavour8 nodes are named the wrong way round.

#25 npattinson - guest

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Posted Jun 08 2008 - 07:11 PM

[quote name='Luna' post='24352' date='Jun 2 2008, 01:50 AM']When editing vertex colours:
- an option to use hexadecimal values, and/or a 0-255 scale.[/quote]
I'd rather leave this as it is - my code uses floating point values for colours everywhere, so if I did provide the alternatives they'd immediately get converted back to floating point anyway.

[quote name='Luna' post='24352' date='Jun 2 2008, 01:50 AM']- the ability to change all vertex colours at once for each polygon, i.e enter an rgb value and all vertex colours for the current poly are set to this value.[/quote]
Assuming I add the support for changing polygon types, is this still useful ? This would just result in an unshaded polygon.

[quote name='Luna' post='24352' date='Jun 2 2008, 01:50 AM']- edit poly colour.
- edit texture co-ordinates.
- change poly type, and keep any values in tact. E.g change an 81f to an 820 and keep all texture-cords and poly colour; or change textured to untextured and keep poly colour. Not sure how complicated this would be to implement.. :unsure:[/quote]
I think I should be able to do these.

[quote name='Luna' post='24352' date='Jun 2 2008, 01:50 AM']- edit offsets for child nodes.[/quote]
You'll probably need to be more specific here, as they'll need separate coding for each type, and doing them all would take a while.

[quote name='Luna' post='24352' date='Jun 2 2008, 01:50 AM']BTW I've just noticed that the plane selectors are 'upside down' - what you have as the "far child" is actually the "near child" and vice versa; similarly the front/back children for flavour8 nodes are named the wrong way round.[/quote]
I think that depends on your point of view. For instance with the simplest of the plane nodes, the one with only one child, I call that child node the 'front' node. To me that makes sense because if you view it from the intended side, you're seeing what's on the front side of the plane which is the child node. If you switch to the wrong side you don't see anything. With respect to the plane equation, it turns out that means that if the equation result is positive you're viewing from the front side, if it's negative you're viewing from the back side. I think all the rest of the child nodes are then named in a consistent fashion, taking a positive plane equation result to be the front and a negative result to be the back.

Possibly the way I name the nodes adds a bit of confusion, e.g. I call the simplest type "Plane Cull Front". That's not meant to mean that it culls the front side per se, merely that the child node called 'Front' is a candidate for culling, and won't be drawn when due to the viewpoint it has become the back.

That was probably clear as mud :)

Nigel

#26 Luna

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Posted Jun 09 2008 - 11:21 AM

[quote name='npattinson' post='24402' date='Jun 9 2008, 02:11 AM'][quote name='Luna' post='24352' date='Jun 2 2008, 01:50 AM']When editing vertex colours:
- an option to use hexadecimal values, and/or a 0-255 scale.[/quote]
I'd rather leave this as it is - my code uses floating point values for colours everywhere, so if I did provide the alternatives they'd immediately get converted back to floating point anyway.[/quote]
I was thinking it might be easier from a user's point of view - I'm more familiar with rgb values in hex or 0-255 than in decimal. This is probably largely due to the fact that until now I've had to use a hex editor to to alter vertex colours; but also most graphics software uses hex or 0-255 for colour - I don't have any that uses decimal.  :unsure:

[quote][quote name='Luna' post='24352' date='Jun 2 2008, 01:50 AM']- the ability to change all vertex colours at once for each polygon, i.e enter an rgb value and all vertex colours for the current poly are set to this value.[/quote]
Assuming I add the support for changing polygon types, is this still useful ? This would just result in an unshaded polygon.[/quote]
When shading 3dos I often find I want to shade a polygon all the same colour. So to shade a triangle red, for example, I need to set the colours of each of the 3 vertices to the same rgb value. I'd find it useful to be able to just set the rgb once and have it 'copied' to all the vertices which make up the polygon.
[quote][quote name='Luna' post='24352' date='Jun 2 2008, 01:50 AM']- edit offsets for child nodes.[/quote]
You'll probably need to be more specific here, as they'll need separate coding for each type, and doing them all would take a while.[/quote]
What I mean is changing the offsets to point to other parts of the tree. For example in a two-child plane selector you could edit the offsets for both children to be the same, rather than duplicating the entire contents of one child in the other. Admittedly this probably isn't something which would be used very often.
[quote][quote name='Luna' post='24352' date='Jun 2 2008, 01:50 AM']BTW I've just noticed that the plane selectors are 'upside down' - what you have as the "far child" is actually the "near child" and vice versa; similarly the front/back children for flavour8 nodes are named the wrong way round.[/quote]
I think that depends on your point of view. For instance with the simplest of the plane nodes, the one with only one child, I call that child node the 'front' node. To me that makes sense because if you view it from the intended side, you're seeing what's on the front side of the plane which is the child node. If you switch to the wrong side you don't see anything. With respect to the plane equation, it turns out that means that if the equation result is positive you're viewing from the front side, if it's negative you're viewing from the back side. I think all the rest of the child nodes are then named in a consistent fashion, taking a positive plane equation result to be the front and a negative result to be the back.
[/quote]
I think front/near/above etc. mean on the side of the plane in which it's facing, irrespective of whether it's facing positively or negatively. For example in a flavour9 node the first child is seen when the viewer is above the plane, even if the plane equation results in a negative value (consider a cube 3do). In RaceCon the first child of a flavour9 is consistently called the "far child" but I think it should be called the "near child" because its contents are what can be seen when the viewer is above the plane.. In a flavour8 node the second child should be 'on the plane when seen from above the plane', i.e the "front child". This completely threw me when I was editing vertex colours for polys in these positions as I ended up shading the wrong side... :rolleyes:

#27 npattinson - guest

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Posted Jun 14 2008 - 08:53 PM

Updated version downloadable from first post.

GPL node type 5.17 (the main one used in car skin 3dos) is now editable. The mip names can be changed, and by clicking on the MIP Count you can change the count, either increasing or decreasing the number of mips.

I also fixed some bugs in the saving code of some of the lesser used node types.

Nigel

#28 npattinson - guest

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Posted Jul 29 2008 - 07:40 PM

Updated version downloadable from first post.

One tiny change - a check that was performed when loading 3dos has been switched to only complaining if the 'strict' option is turned on.

Nigel

#29 MECH

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Posted Aug 25 2008 - 11:43 AM

Hi Nigel,

I've had much benefit from you program  :thumbup:

I have a question regarding the saving of changes:
Is there some sort of clean up function in it? I noticed it removed unused vertices. I hadn't used those vertices in any polygon yet as i was correcting something else. I'm aware that it recreates the 3do since all id's get scrambled afterwards but didn't notice the other feature until confronted with it   ;)

If so this might be useful for cleaning up some 3do's with clutter.  :) (although i now there's this 3doclean utility but it involves Dos, batchfiles or manual labour)

Btw, does it also clean up STRN references? E.g. if i remove the head srb's in the car 3do nodes will it also remove the STRN reference? Since we use 3d helmets for Can Am i'ld like to clean up the car.3do as much as possible  :)

Thx, again.

Edited by MECH, Aug 26 2008 - 04:57 AM.


#30 npattinson - guest

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Posted Sep 05 2008 - 04:50 PM

View PostMECH, on Aug 26 2008, 05:43 AM, said:

I have a question regarding the saving of changes:
Is there some sort of clean up function in it? I noticed it removed unused vertices. I hadn't used those vertices in any polygon yet as i was correcting something else. I'm aware that it recreates the 3do since all id's get scrambled afterwards but didn't notice the other feature until confronted with it   ;)

If so this might be useful for cleaning up some 3do's with clutter.  :) (although i now there's this 3doclean utility but it involves Dos, batchfiles or manual labour)

Btw, does it also clean up STRN references? E.g. if i remove the head srb's in the car 3do nodes will it also remove the STRN reference? Since we use 3d helmets for Can Am i'ld like to clean up the car.3do as much as possible  :)
Yes, I added this in recently - it cleans up unused vertices, planes, normals and strings. I'm slightly less sure about orphaned nodes - I think it will clean them up as well, but if so that's something it has always done and not something I've changed recently.

Nigel

#31 gliebzeit

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Posted Sep 13 2008 - 09:12 PM

I want to thank you once again, Nigel.  Your RaceCon utility is a superb method of working with 3DO files.   :thumbup:

Great stuff!!!

#32 Steffen W - guest

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Posted Oct 24 2008 - 02:40 AM

View Postnpattinson, on Jul 30 2008, 03:40 AM, said:

Updated version downloadable from first post.

One tiny change - a check that was performed when loading 3dos has been switched to only complaining if the 'strict' option is turned on.

Nigel


thx nigel, i already had started setting all my sub.3do numbers to 0 to enable loading, this here is better.

#33 vosblod - guest

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Posted Jan 25 2009 - 03:43 PM

Hi, the download no longer seems to work?
Is it available anywhere else?
Thanks, Vos

#34 MECH

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Posted Jan 25 2009 - 03:55 PM

Untill fixed use this  ;)

Fixed: see post #1

Edited by MECH, Jan 29 2009 - 05:43 AM.


#35 npattinson - guest

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Posted Jan 29 2009 - 01:28 AM

I've re-uploaded it now - it's been rebuilt but I don't think there's any substantial changes.

Nigel

#36 Steffen W - guest

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Posted Apr 07 2009 - 02:36 PM

View Postnpattinson, on May 2 2008, 01:15 AM, said:

View PostSteffen W, on May 2 2008, 01:47 AM, said:

what actually is an id compared to offets i tend to think in from my workings with gpl editor?
They are the same - the id is the offset from the beginning of the 3do section I think. It's possible I take a few liberties with them though, but I don't precisely remember.

However RaceCon supports other Papy games as well as GPL. The 3do files used by the games prior to GPL were similar, but the N4 ptfs are completely different, and I've forgotten whether those ids are offsets or something else.

Nigel


Finally solved my puzzle on the ids.

they are relative offsets from the beginning of the PRIM 3do section. basically just as in 3doEd or GPLeditor with the difference that they are in decimal here and not in hex.


Btw, view track 3d gives me blank white screen. is that a limitation or am i doing anything wrong?


Steffen

#37 npattinson - guest

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Posted Apr 07 2009 - 03:00 PM

View PostSteffen W, on Apr 8 2009, 08:36 AM, said:

Finally solved my puzzle on the ids.

they are relative offsets from the beginning of the PRIM 3do section. basically just as in 3doEd or GPLeditor with the difference that they are in decimal here and not in hex.
Sorry: yes, that's what I meant but wasn't explicit.

View PostSteffen W, on Apr 8 2009, 08:36 AM, said:

Btw, view track 3d gives me blank white screen. is that a limitation or am i doing anything wrong?
It looks like that's as intended - it works only for N4 ptf files. The equivalent in GPL is just to open the trk file.

Nigel

#38 Steffen W - guest

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Posted May 17 2009 - 07:33 PM

Nigel,


just found out that racecon contains info i never heard of before. talking about details on flavour 17 nodes. I knew about distance, longitude and animation splitters but especially the 5 comparison operator options are new to me. could you be so nice to explain the following please:


EDIT:
Distance, Longitude, Latitude and Animation Splitters turned out to be easy.
Animation goes with Operator 5.
Distance, Longitude and Latitude with Operator 1 or 2.

So what would be interesting left is whether

- Operators 3,4,5 make any sense with Distance, Long or Lat and what they mean
- whether State splitters are useful for anything in 3do editing (and not only to be used with some hardcoded exe stuff like bevelled tires in the menu)




thanks in advance Nigel,

Steffen

Edited by Steffen W, May 18 2009 - 05:22 AM.


#39 senor_k

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Posted Mar 15 2010 - 08:43 PM

Whenever I open a .trk file, select a section, then close the .trk window, I start getting missing graphics across all programs. Close window buttons, forward/back buttons in Firefox, Start Menu icons, etc. The only way to get them back is a complete Windows reboot (logging off or closing explorer.exe in the Program Manager doesn't work). I just reinstalled the .NET framework, so that's not the problem.

EDIT: Another way to avoid this is to re-open the .trk file, then close it again without expanding the root tree.

Possibly related is that when I do open up a .trk and click on a track section, I don't see anything, instead of the gray asphalt, green grass, etc. that I see when no section is selected. (The same thing happens in AIEdit, but without the missing graphics problem in all windows).

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Edited by senor_k, Mar 15 2010 - 08:52 PM.


#40 MECH

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Posted Apr 12 2010 - 12:41 PM

Nigel, would it be possible to have a save or rebuild function in Racecon?

I use it sometimes to clean up a 3do and can only get that working if i change something.
Forcing a rebuild of the 3do by a button would be just as nice  :)




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