Jump to content


- - - - -

60 Fps Patch


  • Please log in to reply
63 replies to this topic

#41 M Needforspeed

M Needforspeed

    Denny Hulme

  • GPLLinks Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,557 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:GPL - start a collection of GPL era die cast racing cars -Skiing
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Mar 12 2018 - 01:42 PM

Thank you Roger,

really good experiments. I just have begun to read your first post here . i remember I was tweaking the AI's files , but didn't play with the track.ini folders

You spent many hours  of tweaks, I see, and going back and forth process can be a pain . Appreciated a lot !

:wave:

Edited by M Needforspeed, Mar 12 2018 - 01:53 PM.


#42 Sam

Sam

    Guy Ligier

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:GPL, IRACING
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Mar 12 2018 - 11:51 PM

cheers mate, just having dramas with AI being too slow on the straights

#43 Roger_F

Roger_F

    Fiero NStar V8

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 45 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Classic Sports Cars
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Mar 13 2018 - 02:51 AM

Sam and other interested parties,

Reducing the GEM 2 AI value to less than 1.00 speeds up the AI (down the straights and in the corners);  For example: .85 is more than 15% faster than 1.00.  The addition of the 78l Ai Speed Control V2  patch to Gem 2, slows down the AI in the corners by about 10%.  These two in combination put the 60fps patch in relative balance for F1 and F2 cars and tracks.  Interestingly, the 78l Ai Speed Control V2  patch does not seem to be a good addition to the CANAM and SCGT mods?

The adjustments to "delong_speed_adj_coef"  balances the AI between tracks so they act correctly as a group to historical norms.  Settings above 1.0000 speed up the AI everywhere; higher values are faster.  Lower values slow down the AI everywhere as well.  Most Mods do not do this balancing because they do not know what tracks you are going to choose to apply to their Mod.  So the track group you choose for a particular Mod is probably out of balance by definition at both 36fps and 60fps.  For some reason the 60fps ai1v patch seems to be more sensitive to this balance than the standard 36fps in the GPL simulation.

The third set of possible adjustments to driver.ini aggression and alertness are done to reduce the crash tendencies caused by the combination of lower GEM 2 AI settings and higher
delong_speed_adj_coef settings.  Even at 36fps, low GEM 2 AI settings and high delong_speed_adj_coef settings will cause the AI to go crazy and crash into each other and you.

Putting all this together allows one to set a particular "Mod" and its chosen tracks in balance to the history of the series being represented.  As you can probably see, all "Mods" are not created equal; hence the varying adjustments are necessary between Mods.  A lot of these suggested adjustments would also help the Mods at 36fps.

Adding to all this confusion are new AI packages for the many existing tracks in the GPL Track Database.  These improvements also effect AI lap times as well as on the track AI performance.  Trying to build an historically correct GPL simulation for any given time period or series is quite a difficult task.  Hats off to those individuals that give us all the great Mods that endear us to GPL!!!!

Thanks for listening,

Roger


#44 Pavel

Pavel

    Bruce McLaren

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 866 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minsk, Belarus
  • Interests:Racing, Simracing, Music
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Mar 13 2018 - 07:17 AM

Just note. Can-Am'66 mod comes with AI Speed Control patch by default. So if you add it to GEM too it will not make any difference ;)

#45 Roger_F

Roger_F

    Fiero NStar V8

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 45 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Classic Sports Cars
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Mar 13 2018 - 08:02 AM

Thanks Pavel ... did not know that!  

On the 71 CANAM and SCGT Mods, the AI seem to run better without the Speed Control patch on the Championship Tracks specifically designed for those mods.

Roger

#46 Pavel

Pavel

    Bruce McLaren

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 866 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minsk, Belarus
  • Interests:Racing, Simracing, Music
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Mar 13 2018 - 11:03 AM

I run races with AI only at 36fps. I have tested 60fps patch but returned to default fps. My comments may not be correct for 60fps patch but anyway:

55 mod also comes with AI Speed Control patch by default. I found AI perform better without it. So I've removed it. Like you find during your tests AI Speed Control patch maybe useful only for GT and CanAm cars.

LP files have big impact on AI performance too. There are two ways of using lp files: with default 'lp' extension or with mod specefic extension (l55, l65, l66, l67, l69, lF2, lGT, lCA, lCB). When there are only lp files with standart 'lp' extension in track folder then every mod (67 F1 v1.3 too) uses some coefficients to adjust speed data from lp files. When there are mode specefic lp files then they are read directly without any adjustments. If by chance you are using my AI updates for GT and CanAm71 mods then you have mod specefic lp files for this mods in every championship track folders. This files were made with proper speeds for particular mod. So when this files are read directly without any adjustments then AI should have proper speeds and AI Speed Control patch is not needed.

#47 Roger_F

Roger_F

    Fiero NStar V8

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 45 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Classic Sports Cars
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Mar 13 2018 - 02:05 PM

Pavel,

Again, thank you for the information ... I continue to be amazed at the level of knowledge demonstrated on this site.

Roger

#48 Sam

Sam

    Guy Ligier

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:GPL, IRACING
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Mar 14 2018 - 12:06 AM

at watkins glen where i have been testing, the AI wont go over 4th gear and 218km/h on the back straight

#49 Roger_F

Roger_F

    Fiero NStar V8

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 45 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Classic Sports Cars
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Mar 14 2018 - 03:04 AM

Sam,

It would help to know what F1 Mod / version you are running (65 F1, 66 F1, 67 F1, 68F1 69 F1 etc.) with Watkins Glen and what version of Watkins Glen you are running (there are more than one).  Also of interest would be the key data under the track.ini file that governs the Watkins Glen track where you are having difficulty.  This would likely be the track.ini or track67.ini file in the Watkins Glen track folder if you are in '67 F1.   I would be interested in the data under the [ GT ] sub section of the governing track.ini; refer back to my last response to you and the picture tab that was included.

The 60fps AI v1 mod requires that you install a special gpl_ai.ini file to work properly ... did you install this file at the Mod level and replace the existing file?   While we are at it, are you running the 60fps patch version I just referenced; there are at least three different 60fps patches?  if you are not running the patch first referenced, I would change to the AI Patch for starters.
  
Additionally, are you running under GEM 2 and is it the latest version.  The latest version of GEM 2 seems to have a bug that will not edit the '67 F1 AI through automatic changes to NPT_Override; so you have to do it manually.  In other words the AI value you set in GEM does not adjust the AI performance in this one case.  I am told this only affects the original '67 F1 program ... GEM AI settings seem to work for all the rest of the mods for GPL.  I rarely run the original version of '67 F1 anymore so I avoid this problem; the new Historical '67 version seems to be a much better representation of the '67 season and GEM 2 works for this mod.


Roger

#50 Bob Simpson

Bob Simpson

    The answer man

  • Moderator
  • 2,389 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ottawa
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Mar 14 2018 - 07:06 AM

View PostSam, on Mar 14 2018 - 12:06 AM, said:

at watkins glen where i have been testing, the AI wont go over 4th gear and 218km/h on the back straight
If your car is also going slow and not getting out of 4th gear the answer is simple. When you create a new driver, it defaults to the Basic Trainer cars which only have 4 speeds and lower power.

In GPL > Training mode > Track selection menu, select the "Grand Prix" cars

If it's only the AI cars that are so slow, then, as Roger says it has something to do with the track.ini, the ai files or the 60 fps patch is at fault.

Edited by Bob Simpson, Mar 14 2018 - 07:12 AM.


#51 Sam

Sam

    Guy Ligier

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:GPL, IRACING
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Mar 15 2018 - 01:18 AM

running normal 67 gpl, only the AI that are slow, running 60fpsaiv1

Edited by Sam, Mar 15 2018 - 01:19 AM.


#52 Ernesto Mayer

Ernesto Mayer

    Denny Hulme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 60 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Races, races and races...
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Mar 15 2018 - 02:10 PM

View PostRoger_F, on Mar 14 2018 - 03:04 AM, said:

I rarely run the original version of '67 F1 anymore so I avoid this problem; the new Historical '67 version seems to be a much better representation of the '67 season and GEM 2 works for this mod.


Roger

I fully agree. Finally the cars are driveable, now they look like  F1cars and not like rockets without brakes or stability. That's why a lot of people gave up on GPL, I even left it and I came back from pure stubbornness.
My opinion, no one needs to agree with it, but finally I could enjoy the simulator.

Edited by Ernesto Mayer, Mar 15 2018 - 02:13 PM.


#53 Sam

Sam

    Guy Ligier

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:GPL, IRACING
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Mar 17 2018 - 03:47 PM

anyone that can help with the top speed problem pls, reward to anyone that can fix it lol

#54 Roger_F

Roger_F

    Fiero NStar V8

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 45 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Classic Sports Cars
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Mar 23 2018 - 10:14 AM

My next project is the 60fps adaptation of the excellent 1955 F1 Mod.  This was by far the most interesting adaptation to date for a number of reasons.

First, I would like to thank Greg for his patient schooling on multiple subjects; without his help I would have never been able to tackle this challenging project.

Let's start by discussing the physics used in the 1955 F1 Mod. The F1 cars of this era had vastly different physics than was the case 12 years later when GPL was first simulated.  The 1955 cars were approximately 30% heavier; had tire coefficient of friction values that was much reduced from 1967; had brakes that had a substantial reduction in efficiency and duration; engines that were much less powerful; and chassis that were crude compared to the F1 vehicles of 1967.  Using a 1967 simulation as the basis for a 1955 simulation is an interesting challenge to say the least.  The good news is that the mod team did a fantastic job; the not-so-good news is that the 1955 AI struggle to perform under the same general parameters as the 1967 AI.  

One of the obvious problems are "pile ups" and "take outs."  Finishing a race against the AI is a real challenge on many tracks both at 36fps and even more so at 60fps.  
My theory is that the physics of the 55 mod contribute to the pile ups.  The F1 and F2 cars from 1967 and forward are much lighter and have superior braking, cornering, and steering capabilities.  These changes in physics gives the more modern AI better stopping, maneuvering, and "avoidance" capabilities.  

In order to test my theory I made a copy of the initial driv55.ini and changed the aggression indices to 80% of their current value for each of the 19 AI drivers.  I also increased the value of the alertness indices to 1.2 or higher for each AI driver.  The net result were AIs that are less likely to take a questionable chance and much more likely to avoid a problem that occurs in front of them.  In general the AI racing in the 1955 F1 Mod is better and the probability of finishing a race seems to improve significantly.  This again applies to 36fps and even more so to 60fps.  

This AI characteristic change is relatively easy to initiate; open the driv55.ini and change the aggression and alertness indices as suggested previously.  If you have loaded the 1955 race specific car sets you will also have to change the driv55.ini for each race specific track.   I started these suggested changes on a track by track basis and finally decided that all tracks seemed to benefit to some degree ... so I changed them all.  Tracks with fast straits leading into very tight corners seem to be a particular problem in regards to AI pileups; these tracks benefited the most from the suggested AI changes.  

Some of the 1955 AIs are pretty slow at 36fps and even slower at 60 fps.  If you increase their speed through a lower Gem 2 AI value (1.00 is standard) or an increased dlong_speed_ adj_coef (in the track55.ini files) you will increase the probability of AI crashes.  Directly adjusting the NPT_Override setting also effects the AI crash avoidance behavior.  The modified driv55.ini files help in all these situations.  The discussion to this point applies to 1955 F1 Mod with or without the 60fps patch. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Everything said previously, now becomes background to the 1955 F1 Mod conversion to 60fps.  Extensive testing yielded a GEM 2 AI setting of  .88 and requires a fair amount of adjustment both above and below 1.0000 for the dlong_speed_adj_coeff in the individual track55.ini files; this adjustment balances the tracks to the historical qualifying times.  I am currently running 20 tracks in my 1955 F1 simulation; other tracks will have to be tested individually to determine proper values.  Previous posts describe the testing process.  

You will also note in the attached spreadsheet that I have added 9 race specific car sets to the 11 track / car set packages released by Greg.  These are primarily new car sets, using existing mip drawings and a host of new 3dos.  My objective was to recreate races that had a similar feel from a standpoint of: size of field, type of cars entered, drivers competing, and lastly historical accuracy from a graphics standpoint.  In other words, I did not create any new cars to represent missing vehicles.  The car numbers are mostly correct but not always.  When a specific color or decorating scheme was already included in the car mip database, I used it as it was drawn (number and all).  For this reason, I am somewhat reluctant to share all these new race specific car sets.  These new car sets would also require an extensive amount of work to put into a usable format for general consumption.  I'd probably need some help/advice  to develop a deliverable package of the same general quality as Greg's original offering.  If one of you have the presentation formatting skills and are interested, let's discuss.

The reason I created these race specific car sets was primarily due to the inclusion or not, of the Mercedes cars in the actual races.  The silver arrows were better on most tracks than their competition and when the Mercedes Factory Teams showed up, the rest of the field generally finished behind the Mercedes cars that did not crash or have mechanical difficulties.  There were exceptions, but the silver arrows were dominate in the two years they competed.  The Non Championship events rarely, if ever, saw a Mercedes entrant.  

I also used the race specific car sets that Greg created for the two missing tracks Percara and Pedra55.  I used
Brno-49 and Porto58 as substitute tracks with Greg's driv55,ini files and other data .  These two substitute conversions are pretty straight forward as they primarily use existing 3dos and mips.  if you want to try these, I'm game to share.  The other 7 of 9 new race specific car sets are much more involved.  The track data for all 9 new, race specific car sets will work when used as non race specific tracks.
  
So here is the actual conversion process:  Using the attached spreadsheet, change the GEM 2 AI values to .88; use the 60fps AI v1; and use the 78 AI 10% patches as before ... also change the track55.ini files as we discussed earlier.  Each driv55.ini will need to be adjusted for aggression and alertness (as discussed) and after all this you should be ready to go racing at 60fps.  

The 55F1 Mod is a more complicated 60fps conversion than some of the previously discussed efforts.  You may want to avoid this conversion, if you struggled with earlier 60fps discussions.  I remain available to help as before.  

I hope this effort is of use to you; it has materially increased my enjoyment of this terrific Mod.

Roger

Attached File  UO55F1Mod001.jpg   99.65K   72 downloads

Edited by Roger_F, Mar 23 2018 - 03:53 PM.


#55 EzaBlade

EzaBlade

    Jack Brabham

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 47 posts

Posted Dec 18 2018 - 04:54 PM

I decided to search here again for the 60 fps patch  to see if there had been any improvements since I abandoned the idea of using it and wowee!! I only race against AI - don't know if I'll ever be good enough to race online - anyway massive massive thanks to Roger-F for this work.

I didn't expect it, but I seem able to control the car much much better. This is brilliant.

One thing - having read through this entire post and made the final changes Roger_F arrived at - I think I must have missed something unless this issue is unsolved. Was there anything that fixed the speed of the AI cars off of the start line? They completely blew me away and were off into the distance before I could twitch.

Once again big thanks to Roger_F for the time and effort especially, like myself, without the knowledge to be able to create a patch.

:up:

#56 Roger_F

Roger_F

    Fiero NStar V8

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 45 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Classic Sports Cars
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Dec 19 2018 - 04:23 AM

EzaBlade, Thank you for the very kind words!

With a lot of practice you can get to the point where you only give away a few places from the middle of the pack.  If you start from the end of the pack you will be well behind the rest of the competition going into the first turn.  I have been unable to to find a solution to this phenomena?

All else seems to work well and I continue to adjust track and AI parameters as I gain experience in other mods and tracks.  Once you understand the basic 60pfs methodology you can hopefully apply your new found knowledge and expand your enjoyment of 60fps GPL AI racing, as I have.

This great game has become a passion of mine and I salute all the fantastic mod developers that have brought the game to its current level of sophistication!  

A very greatful,

Roger

#57 EzaBlade

EzaBlade

    Jack Brabham

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 47 posts

Posted Dec 19 2018 - 10:49 AM

I was following along with the changes on this post and simply running a Practice session in Accelerated Time to see what the final qualifying times were for my changes. When the front-runners were in the 1:28:00 - 1:29:00 range at Monza I considered that to be a reasonable starting point before deciding what I wanted for my own racing.

Anyway all seemed well so I decided to have a mess around with a particular driver configuration value to see what it did. This value was the magic_grip value which is set to 1 by default. I found that by setting it to 0 the car never moved. Values between 1 and 0 had varying effects on the grip. This experimentation was to see if I could slow the cars down at the start where they shoot off into the distance (unlike the standard 35 fps where I can get off the line with some of the lesser drivers). It sort of worked, but as expected, the grip was affected during the rest of the race, and not knowing the other settings involved in the grip calculations, changing this single value is patently not the answer.

OK - so the real point of this post is this:-

During these trials I put myself into the other cars during the start and I noticed that when I have the 60fpsv2newmod selected to enable 60fps, the AI cars did not change to a gear any higher than 3rd. I reinstated the files I backed up before carrying out the changes suggested in previous posts and deselected the 60fps patch and gear-changing returned to normal.

With just the 60fps patch re-enabled but none of the configuration changes  from above posts, again the gear changes stopped at 3rd. In the Ferrari driven by C. Amon the gear changes also took place at around 10,000 rpm, and when stuck in 3rd this was the max rpm achieved. In standard 35 fps mode this driver in this car changed at around 11,000 rpm or thereabouts.

Does anyone get the same?
Does the 60fps patch affect the gear changing?
Is this why the practice times slow from 1:28:00 to around 1:38:00? If so, why do the changes suggested in previous posts still speed up the cars when they are stuck in 3rd?

I'm really confused.

Edited by EzaBlade, Dec 19 2018 - 10:51 AM.


#58 Roger_F

Roger_F

    Fiero NStar V8

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 45 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:USA
  • Interests:Classic Sports Cars
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Dec 20 2018 - 01:00 PM

One of the experts on this discussion platform stated in a past comment that the dlong_speed_maximum for the controlling track.ini or trackXX.ini ... must be set to 2.500000 for all tracks included in a given mod.  This seems to be part of the controlling parameters for the AI to react properly; I have always followed this advice.

Ezablade, try this adjustment and see if it makes any difference?

Roger

#59 EzaBlade

EzaBlade

    Jack Brabham

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 47 posts

Posted Dec 20 2018 - 02:23 PM

I did actually set this value already as I saw you mention that it was something that needed doing, but reading back I noticed that I didn't change the reference value under [statistics]. So I will try it again with the value you advise and see what happens.

In summary:-

Mod: 67 Historical Mod
Track: Monza
File Location:  GPL Installation Folder\tracks\monza
File: track67.ini


Original values

[ statistics ]
reference_value = 89.2

[ GP ]
dlong_speed_adj_coeff = 1.020000 ; value modifies dlong velocities (i.e. RELS) in .LP  
dlong_speed_maximum = 2.410000    ; max. dlong speed (meters/tick) for .LP after all modifiers (e.g., dlong_speed_adj_coeff)
________________________________

New values

[ statistics ]
reference_value = 99.0

[ GP ]
dlong_speed_adj_coeff = 1.130000 ; value modifies dlong velocities (i.e. RELS) in .LP  
dlong_speed_maximum = 2.500000    ; max. dlong speed (meters/tick) for .LP after all modifiers (e.g., dlong_speed_adj_coeff)

Edited by EzaBlade, Dec 20 2018 - 02:25 PM.


#60 EzaBlade

EzaBlade

    Jack Brabham

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 47 posts

Posted Dec 20 2018 - 02:34 PM

All the suggested settings are there but the AI cars still don't go beyond 3rd gear.

:bigcry2:




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Sim Racing Links