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67 Sc Extra Mod - Chaparral 2F Issue


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#1 Tato

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Posted Jan 04 2019 - 10:25 AM

Hello.

Because I'm the only one stupid to have this problem, or seems so, surely all you want to joke me. But I ask anyway.

I've read - correct me if I'm wrong - that is possible to move the wing in the Chappy 2F, in order to have downforce or alternately reduce the aero drag, as needed and preferred by the driver along the track.

But my problem is that I have no clue at all which button/pedal/axis to use, and/or how to map the function, if possible. In other words, I can't find anything in control menu, car's menu, settings menu, setup menu or whatever you want ingame nor in the SC extra mod readme to do this.

Hoping in someone's else compassion to be so kind to give me a good answer and explanation, or even just sending me straight to hell, since I'm used to that anyway.

#2 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted Jan 04 2019 - 10:39 AM

These images might help you out of the bind...

Attached File  C2F_wing.jpg   158.05K   85 downloads

I use a Logitech G25 wheel & pedals with the left button of the wheel dedicated to the wing function.

Attached File  Logi G25 Wheel.jpg   19.08K   114 downloads

This is the menu config where that left button is for 'View Pit Board'.

Attached File  menupix.jpg   21.06K   88 downloads

Edited by Manfred Cubenoggin, Jan 04 2019 - 10:40 AM.


#3 gliebzeit

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Posted Jan 04 2019 - 11:23 AM

When driving the Chaparral 2F you must tick the box for 'Auto View Pit Board'.  :)

#4 Tormentor

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Posted Jan 04 2019 - 11:29 AM

Is it possible to change this behaviour?
If you have a 2 pedal setup, you have no pedal left. If you have a 3 pedal setup, your left pedal is the clutch, so you have also no pedal left. And if i understood this correct, the wing is in high downforce position only as long as you press the button you assigned? Right? So if i use a steering wheel without buttons on my T300 (which i normaly do when driving GPL or the mods), i have to press a key on my keyboard the whole time in the corner, that means one hand steering and no upshifts or downshifts because of H-shifter. If i use a wheel with buttons and slip of the button in the corner, the wing gets in low downforce position and i spin.
Is it possible to code it as a switch? Press button -> wing up, press button -> wing down, press button -> wing up again and so on?

Edited by Tormentor, Jan 04 2019 - 11:31 AM.


#5 jxeboy

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Posted Jan 04 2019 - 11:38 AM

In the real life car there was no clutch and only 4 gears. They had to press the pedal down to make the wing flat and go faster. Configuring it to the clutch petal should allow for a fairly realistic simulation.

#6 Cookie

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Posted Jan 04 2019 - 12:02 PM

In 1966 the sensation was the first race car with an automatic transmission had won the 1000km of the Nürburgring - The Chapparal D!

The MK2F was built 1967 on the D chassis so it had the same transmission and no clutch pedal.

I do use the clutch pedal and it feels great when you get used to it.
A PB of 3:24:02 at Spa67 is the result...

Edited by Cookie, Jan 04 2019 - 12:04 PM.


#7 TvO

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Posted Jan 04 2019 - 12:03 PM

It's vice versa Tormentor, you have to press the button on the straights. Works exactly the same as today's F1 DRS.

#8 gliebzeit

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Posted Jan 04 2019 - 12:39 PM

"In the real life car there was no clutch and only 4 gears.

Actually, the 1967 Chaparral 2F (and the 1967 Chaparral 2D at Daytona and Sebring) had 3 gears.  :)
This is modeled correctly within the GPL Sportscar Mod.  The display of a 4th gear does nothing.
When I set the gearing on the Chaparrals I always make 3rd and 4th gears the same ratio just because I am weird.  ;)

The 1966 Chaparral 2D had 2 gears, as did all of the US Chaparral sports racing cars.

Edited by gliebzeit, Jan 04 2019 - 12:41 PM.


#9 Tormentor

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Posted Jan 04 2019 - 01:18 PM

Guys, historical correct is fine, but it's totaly impractical for a sim racer. The other cars had'nt automatic transmission, so i have to use the clutch for the rest of the field. Do i really have to dl "joytokey" to get a realistic Chap2F ingame, and change the settings of joytokey everytime i change the car to Ferrari or Ford? You can't be serious.

View PostTvO, on Jan 04 2019 - 12:03 PM, said:

It's vice versa Tormentor, you have to press the button on the straights. Works exactly the same as today's F1 DRS.

Ok, thank you, understood. But on modern F1 the DRS button works as a switch to anable DRS and it's automaticly disabled when hitting the brakes for the next corner. They don't need to hold the button depressed.

#10 Tato

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Posted Jan 04 2019 - 02:02 PM

Thanks guys for explanations and patience. I've had completely overlooked this. Could happens, with old stupid like me.
Because I use left foot pedal (clutch) for braking with my G27 driving device (I find central pedal used for the brakes to have too much spring stiffness for me, so remains always unused), I will try mapping one of the six buttons on the wheel for 'watch pit board'/'wing stall' and see what happens, I'm really curious about this feature. Also I can understand the problem if you have a wheel without any buttons as Tormentor, but the fact that continuous press is required imho is not an issue but match the real thing, surely can be done with a bit of practice, otherwise is possible to drive the car anyway.

BTW, I recall now (but not sure if I'm right or remember bad) I've read somewhere so far that in 1968 Chapman introduced a similar device for the Lotus at some races; it was very primitive and fragile, with some rubber bends pulled and moved with a pedal, and Graham told and complained how he was worried about it, because after some use the rubber bends started to break and malfuntion i.e. at Mexico City GP, so he spent most of the time on main straight watching in the mirror at rear wing to see if the wing was in position, and still there or not... surely better historically correct informations can be added by someone else than me.

#11 Cookie

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Posted Jan 04 2019 - 02:30 PM

View PostTormentor, on Jan 04 2019 - 01:18 PM, said:

Guys, historical correct is fine, but it's totaly impractical for a sim racer. The other cars had'nt automatic transmission, so i have to use the clutch for the rest of the field. Do i really have to dl "joytokey" to get a realistic Chap2F ingame, and change the settings of joytokey everytime i change the car to Ferrari or Ford? You can't be serious.

As you see my avatar, this is the car for me to drive and I do it the way Phil Hill did...

Of course you can drive the ChapF without jtk by using any key to press "View Pit Board" out of the box ;)

#12 Lee200

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Posted Jan 04 2019 - 03:05 PM

View PostTormentor, on Jan 04 2019 - 01:18 PM, said:

Guys, historical correct is fine, but it's totaly impractical for a sim racer. The other cars had'nt automatic transmission, so i have to use the clutch for the rest of the field. Do i really have to dl "joytokey" to get a realistic Chap2F ingame, and change the settings of joytokey everytime i change the car to Ferrari or Ford? You can't be serious.

Ok, thank you, understood. But on modern F1 the DRS button works as a switch to anable DRS and it's automaticly disabled when hitting the brakes for the next corner. They don't need to hold the button depressed.

I believe you are using a wheel that doesn't have any buttons.  If so, you can change the View Pitboard key in the Options menu to use any keyboard key (the C key is the normal default key).  The other alternative is to use JoyToKey to assign your clutch pedal to use the same key that you have assigned for View Pitboard.

I don't have a three pedal setup so don't know anything else about JoyToKey.

We aren't simulating a modern F1 car; we are simulating the 1967 Chaparral 2F and its driver had to hold the wing pedal down continuously to keep the wing level.

#13 Art-J

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Posted Jan 04 2019 - 03:12 PM

View PostTormentor, on Jan 04 2019 - 01:18 PM, said:

Guys, historical correct is fine, but it's totaly impractical for a sim racer. The other cars had'nt automatic transmission, so i have to use the clutch for the rest of the field. Do i really have to dl "joytokey" to get a realistic Chap2F ingame, and change the settings of joytokey everytime i change the car to Ferrari or Ford? You can't be serious.

There's no simple solution to the fact that GPL does not allow separate control configs for individual cars (it's not like modern sims do it either to be honest), so you'll either have to map/unmap left pedal axis when switching to other car (joytokey can be left runnig then, as it won't affect non-2F cars anyway), ot just create separate player profile for driving 2F with its own distinctive pedal assignments. Switching between driver profiles in-game will be faster than any tinkering with control options.

Edited by Art-J, Jan 04 2019 - 03:13 PM.


#14 TvO

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Posted Jan 04 2019 - 03:58 PM

View PostTormentor, on Jan 04 2019 - 01:18 PM, said:

Guys, historical correct is fine, but it's totaly impractical for a sim racer. The other cars had'nt automatic transmission, so i have to use the clutch for the rest of the field. Do i really have to dl "joytokey" to get a realistic Chap2F ingame, and change the settings of joytokey everytime i change the car to Ferrari or Ford? You can't be serious.

As I'm sure you are aware, you don't have to do anything. Except "number one" and "number two" of course :) .

On a more constructive note, aren't there any USB plugin buttons for sale that allow you to have a key within reach? Or maybe an old joystick from the thrift store for a buck or two. You have to be resourceful to race GPL ;)

#15 gliebzeit

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Posted Jan 04 2019 - 04:08 PM

... or how about a bluetooth voice-command for the 'button'.

I am taking this from that annoying guy at the adjacent table in my favorite restaurant who is talking way too loud on his bluetooth phone.
I can almost hear him say "Wing Down!!".

#16 Stefan Roess

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Posted Jan 05 2019 - 02:13 AM

Nice one Greg :)

Lee, could you please program Bluetooth support for GPL. ;)

#17 Saiph

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Posted Jan 05 2019 - 04:47 AM

I don't have space to keep my G27 set up permanently, so I often use my old CH Mach 2, 2-button joystick to drive GPL. How can I operate the 2F rear wing? If I need to keep a keyboard key pressed on the straights to reduce drag, it makes it impossible to hold the joystick. I need three hands to do that!

In practical terms, for real-life GPL drivers who don't have a game controller with extra buttons, the best way to implement the wing feature would be to make it a toggle switch, which automatically cancels as soon as the brakes are applied. Using this method, a player could quickly and simply tap the "wing flat" key at the start of a straight, and then put their hands back on the controls to drive properly. At the end of the straight, when they apply the brakes to slow for the next corner, the "wing flat" feature switches off, so they don't have to do anything.

Sometimes, it seems that a slavish dedication to "realism" can lead to poor decisions being taken for GPL mods. IMHO this 2F wing feature is an example of this. It's poorly implemented and poorly documented.

At the moment, I can't see any point in driving the GTX 2F, because I have no practical way of reducing drag on the straights, and therefore my laptimes are going to be slower than they should be. :idunno:

View PostTvO, on Jan 04 2019 - 03:58 PM, said:

As I'm sure you are aware, you don't have to do anything. Except "number one" and "number two" of course :) .
.......

I'm sorry Tommie, I don't understand your reply to Tormentor. What does this mean? Are you trying to be helpful, or are you just making a joke out of his question? :idunno:

#18 webfoot

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Posted Jan 05 2019 - 04:59 AM

View PostSaiph, on Jan 05 2019 - 04:47 AM, said:

In practical terms, for real-life GPL drivers who don't have a game controller with extra buttons, the best way to implement the wing feature would be to make it a toggle switch, which automatically cancels as soon as the brakes are applied. Using this method, a player could quickly and simply tap the "wing flat" key at the start of a straight, and then put their hands back on the controls to drive properly. At the end of the straight, when they apply the brakes to slow for the next corner, the "wing flat" feature switches off, so they don't have to do anything.



Snafu discussed his "toggle" set up here

http://srmz.net/inde...=80#entry136809

Not an automatic cancel but at least you can toggle it on and off.

Edited by webfoot, Jan 05 2019 - 05:03 AM.


#19 Tormentor

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Posted Jan 05 2019 - 05:04 AM

The problem is, GPL does'nt allow me to assign ANY OTHER key than a keyboard key for view pitboard. Only a third of my buttonbox buttons work with gpl. Don't know whats going on here.

Posted Image Posted Image

So you see, i have wheels with buttons and some without. I will try to add a button to my Ford wheel and connect it to my buttonbox. Hope this will work.

======================================================================================================================

ANOTHER QUESTION for the 2F:

I've tried to drive the car with automatic transmission, but the car did'nt even roll out the pits. I have gpl patched with gplshift, seems to me this combination (automatic tramsmision and gplshift) does'nt work? Can anybody confirm that?

#20 TvO

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Posted Jan 05 2019 - 06:07 AM

View PostFrom Jan 05 2019 - 04:47 AM:

I'm sorry Tommie, I don't understand your reply to Tormentor. What does this mean? Are you trying to be helpful, or are you just making a joke out of his question? :idunno:

I was making a joke as I thought it was impolite. You don't have to thank the mod team on your bare knees, but this was too far in my opinion. Anyway, hope you get it sorted.

By the way, the Chaparrals did not have an automatic gearbox. They had a sequential one.

Edited by TvO, Jan 05 2019 - 06:09 AM.





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