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Tyre Model On F1-67 Original Cars?


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#16 MECH

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Posted Mar 30 2012 - 12:40 AM

50's

#17 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Jun 16 2012 - 08:21 PM

Old thread, but i'll give my opinion. First off the 67 cars will never feel like the F2 cars. The 67 F1 cars have way more power, and will push the tires way harder than the F2 cars can. I thought the F2 cars had a bit too much grip. Too easy to drive.

If you want to feel what the 67 F1 cars will feel like with a different tire model. Just drive some of the 66 cars. A lot of them are not that far from the 67 cars. Do they feel that much different? They certainly don't feel like the 67 F2 cars if that's what you're expecting.

I say forget the idea, and concentrate on other mods. Like those beautiful 50's and 30's cars.

#18 M Needforspeed

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Posted Jun 17 2012 - 04:05 AM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Jun 16 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

Old thread, but i'll give my opinion. First off the 67 cars will never feel like the F2 cars. The 67 F1 cars have way more power, and will push the tires way harder than the F2 cars can. I thought the F2 cars had a bit too much grip. Too easy to drive.

If you want to feel what the 67 F1 cars will feel like with a different tire model. Just drive some of the 66 cars. A lot of them are not that far from the 67 cars. Do they feel that much different? They certainly don't feel like the 67 F2 cars if that's what you're expecting.

I say forget the idea, and concentrate on other mods. Like those beautiful 50's and 30's cars.

Pete,

as much your love for the ori 67 mod is  respectable and I share it with you , I think that it finally will be up to the modders, their ability and will to do it , if they have one day spare time left( ???) .

No one will forbid us to keep driving the original physics.Even if they have some flaws (not so many), they are great simply because they measure better  our improvement( rather stagnation, here !:idunno:)  as sim racing drivers than any others physics.

On the other side, with the amount of experience gained by modders with recents mods, looking again at the 67 cars physics is in my opinion a natural thing.
Add to that  the 7 slots limitation at a time where modders offered us cars already done for at least 7 added slots, is a little bit frustrating

Thinking of Gianfranco, Marco :hat-tip: :thumbup: :artist:  who offers us a race by race carset with the :angry33:ing 7 slots restriction.
  

We are only watchers on what' s going on . Again, it is up to our great modders, and we can only follow what they have the will or not to complete.

Finally, on  a personal experience, with all the doc I collected on the 67 season, I don 't think a thing approximating the real 67 physics wld offer us cars  a lot easier to race than the Papyrus beasts  !!
67 F1, as the 66, wld stay tricky things to handle and to get the best of them on the track.

Edited by M Needforspeed, Jun 17 2012 - 06:11 AM.


#19 oppolo

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Posted Jun 17 2012 - 05:40 AM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Jun 16 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

If you want to feel what the 67 F1 cars will feel like with a different tire model. Just drive some of the 66 cars.
yes, I'd like that the 67 eagle feel like the 66 eagle, but it is not only for this, recent historical carsets of 67 season need a 67 mod with more slots for cars

Edited by oppolo, Jun 17 2012 - 05:42 AM.


#20 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Jun 17 2012 - 07:25 AM

My point was the 66 cars should feel very close to what the mod team would do to the 67 cars. Is the real 66 Ferrari much different that the 67 car? I think some feel the 67 F1 cars should feel like the 67 F2 cars. They won't. The F2 cars feel good, because that aren't overpowered like the F1 cars are.

400hp in an 1100lb car on hard biased ply tires will never feel glued to the track. Watch videos of the real cars.

#21 Chad1233

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Posted Jun 17 2012 - 08:10 AM

I would love to see a historical 67 mod to drive on the new upcoming historically accurate SPA!

For a while I've been wanting to see the great original cars be improved even better, and I bet all this fan support has made the original developers surprised to see such dedicated people take such old software further!

#22 oppolo

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Posted Jun 17 2012 - 08:34 AM

Pete
you don't use an FFB steering wheel so you can't know an important difference between original 67 and MODs
http://srmz.net/inde...593

so, why i would want a 67xtra mod?
1 - new physic
2 - new FFB
3 - all new features avaible overall for the historicall correct new carsets

#23 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Jun 17 2012 - 01:40 PM

View Postoppolo, on Jun 17 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

Pete
you don't use an FFB steering wheel so you can't know an important difference between original 67 and MODs
http://srmz.net/inde...593

so, why i would want a 67xtra mod?
1 - new physic
2 - new FFB
3 - all new features avaible overall for the historicall correct new carsets


My wheel has FF. I don't like it, and turn it off. It doesn't mean i haven't done hundreds of laps with it on. In the end I always decide I don't like it and turn it off.

Nothing i've said changes whether I have it on or off. The 67 cars modded won't feel that much different than the 66 mod. You're still going to be sliding a lot. It's realistic to the real 67 F1 cars.

I'm not sure you know how making a mod works? Richard makes some changes, and the beta testers drive it. Then we get together and talk about how it feels. Then more changes, and more testing. The end result is a majority agreement that it feels real. Real only on what we feel it should feel like. I'm pretty sure nobody has driven the real cars.

I believe iRacing has more resources, and will probably get the Lotus 49 pretty close. They will have those who have driven the real car, and compare to what Dave comes up with. I think everybody will be surprised how loose the car is. Lets wait and see, and compare the iRacing car to the GPL car. I'll be surprised if the GPL car isn't easier to drive.

#24 mcmirande

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Posted Jun 18 2012 - 05:48 AM

I think nobody (at least myself at start of the post) asked for an "easier F1-67 mod". If I want an easier driving I'll just would move to another sim or arcade game.
In the original post I said that the tyres of the F2 mod feel more realistic (at least as I could imagine them) than in the papyrus cars. I feel tyres as more "elastic" and with a better transition between grip and skid. I mean, when you're slow the tyres have comparatively more grip than the original papy-tyres, and the transition to slide is comparatively more abrupt with speed... just as real tyres (both regular street car tyres as slicks -I have driven both-).
I don't know, and actually I don't care, if F2 tyres would make original 67 cars easier to drive, but I think those tyres would make them more realistic yet.

Cheers, Marcos.

#25 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Jun 18 2012 - 01:03 PM

Have you driven on 60's biased ply racing tires?

#26 mcmirande

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Posted Jun 18 2012 - 07:23 PM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Jun 18 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

Have you driven on 60's biased ply racing tires?

hehe, no, I didn't, and you? We should look for an old racer to ask him. Now that I think about it... we have a 75-years guy in our league... maybe he drove something like that... :)

Edited by mcmirande, Jun 18 2012 - 07:26 PM.


#27 Bob Simpson

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Posted Jun 18 2012 - 07:51 PM

It is hard to imagine - and this is one of the criticisms of GPL - that any real race car would be so touchy that a small error would kill you as is the case with these 67 cars.  They are in GPL, and were in real life probably hard to handle, but I'm guessing (insert the "I've never driven one myself" disclaimer here) that they were more forgiving than what it seems in GPL.

However, the beauty of GPL is that once you've mastered your first four wheel drift, the satisfaction factor is huge.

Edited by Bob Simpson, Jun 18 2012 - 07:52 PM.


#28 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Jun 18 2012 - 08:35 PM

Bob,

I'm not saying the 67 cars are accurate. What i'm saying is the 66 mod should feel very similar to what the mod team would do to the 67 cars. Do they feel that much different?

Some seem to feel that the 67 F1 mod would drive like the 67 F2 mod. I know it would be wrong if it did. The F2 cars are glued to the track.




Mcmirande,

Yes, i'm old enough. I'll turn 70 this year. Biased tires are not strange to me.

#29 Rudy Dingemans

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Posted Jun 18 2012 - 08:57 PM

Well, the F2 cars probably had lot more grip relative to their engine power of course. Similar to the 65s, which are also easier to drive than the 67s (whose tyre model is definitely off, good for its day but already outdated the day NR2002 appeared way back when).

We don't know how those F2s drove exactly, nor do we know how the old 67 F1s drove (guess only JGF has any idea, since he drove a Lotus 49). We can only take their accurate top speed, engine power, approximated acceleration data and then adjust lap speeds by adjusting grip (etc.) until they get close to the real thing.

If that results in cars that drive like on ice, then so be it, in the case of the F2s, relatively much grip in relation to engine power is probably most realistic, especially since that applied to the 65s as well.

Regards, Rudy
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#30 oppolo

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Posted Jun 19 2012 - 02:19 AM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Jun 18 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

I'm not saying the 67 cars are accurate. What i'm saying is the 66 mod should feel very similar to what the mod team would do to the 67 cars. Do they feel that much different?

in my opinion yes, also in the FFB

with regard to the fact that nobody has never driven a 67 f1, well, that's the usual argument for those who don't want change the physics of the 67, however it is clear the lack of grip at low speed even when the power is not applied, there was no soap on the tracks also in 67 season  :rolleyes:

and, i repeat, it is not only for the physich we want a 67 mod

Edited by oppolo, Jun 19 2012 - 02:20 AM.




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