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Engine Blow-Up. Is Qualifying Engine Wear Tied With The Race?

engine blow-up

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#1 Pedro L Ramalho

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Posted Oct 08 2018 - 07:35 AM

Yesterday I blew the Lotus engine at the 2nd lap of an online race (GPL Brasil, Road America track, mod 67) without ever reaching more than 9300rpm and in a moderate pace. Before that I ran the whole 30 min of qualifying in a more agressive pace (without problems here, however). My question is: does the damage model of the game ties the wear of the engine in qualifying with the wear of the engine at the beggining of the race? Or could this have been just a random blow-up?

#2 John Woods

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Posted Oct 08 2018 - 08:35 AM

Just guessing similar to shift-r you get a new car each session, so wear from qualifying would not transfer to race car.

No idea what caused the blow-up or if it was random.
Lots of things are possible speedshifting Lotus at 9300rpm.
:P

My favorites are camshaft, ignition, and header.
Probably specific driver errors that are associated with each.

Too much load on the engine will mash up and flatten cam lobes in real life and probably crush some bearings, bend a valve stem or leave one in the cylinder too long.

Happens in an instant at the threshold of metal fatigue.
That's why hill climbs are so challenging...its all about the engine.

For instance, shifting too early or shifting to a too long gear while ascending the hill between T5 and the Corvette Bridge, or up Thunder Valley, or up the Main Straight, might or would do that.


:D

Edited by John Woods, Oct 08 2018 - 09:06 AM.


#3 Pedro L Ramalho

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Posted Oct 09 2018 - 03:47 AM

Thank you John, for your analisys.
I tuned carefuly all five gears, with special attention to 2nd and 3rd gear, to avoid reaching red line in those points of the track that you refer. That's why I don't understand what happened. If there's no tie in the damage model between qualifying and race, then I must conclude that it was a random blow-up.
Getting tired of this game again, because of this kind of things. I think it's time to stop again another 5 years...

#4 Cookie

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Posted Oct 09 2018 - 04:00 AM

In 1967 those Race cars were built by humans with much more tolerances in the process!

Engine and suspension failures were quite normal.

GPL has the reliability coded in each car, so if you drive a Lotus or Eagle it will happen more often than in a Honda or Brabham...

#5 SV3000

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Posted Oct 09 2018 - 04:36 AM

Not sure if this is related, I encountered several times where if I stepped throttle immediately (not hitting red line) after clicked green flag, the engine usually would blow up very soon after. While if I waited a few second before stepping throttle after the car was on the track, the engine is more durable even if reaching red line often in the following laps.

#6 Pedro L Ramalho

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Posted Oct 09 2018 - 04:53 AM

I know, Axel, but it's very frustating to race online and get caught by the aleatoriety of that code. Specialy when the game has more friendly damage models options available. Are there any leagues running in a less severe damage model?

SV3000, in fact I did a very good and quick start in this race (my best one so far). If that is related, it's a very, very silly thing... Thanks for the comment.

#7 John Woods

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Posted Oct 09 2018 - 08:02 AM

It was surely a random event that will remain without cause so the only option is to leave it at that.

My experience has been it is a very rare event although used to be very good at it, especially when shifting up while passing a car out of its slipstream. Bad idea. Always shift first when well behind and use higher gear to accelerate while approaching the leading car. JMO.

Shifting at 9300 is only a fraction below the spec 9400 redline...a moments loss of traction could over-rev beyond any reasonable limit in about one millisecond probably.

The real Lotus 49 was fitted with as I understand a sort of crude maybe first time ever rev-limiter that kept RPMs below 9K to prevent the engine from blowing up if shifted near its tech perfect redline.

There is no torque worth using past 9Krpm anyway.

With you tho, and against all prudence, routinely shift when it seems the valve train is just at its max rpm happy point, where torque really falls off and there is pretty much no load on my fantasy motor.

Better get that right, based on experience.
Very very rarely blow an engine in advanced mode, and its usually in my view my own fault.

Really would just go with it being random unless it happens more often.

Or it could be on-line related? No idea at all.
iGOR went down on the 6th?


:D

Edited by John Woods, Oct 09 2018 - 05:04 PM.


#8 Cookie

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Posted Oct 09 2018 - 08:04 AM

I do only online racing, so I understand very well the frustration,
this happened 2x in the last UKGPL season to me :blink:
66s at Oulton I had a big lead when my engine got sour 2 laps to go and I was caught 400m before the finish line...

#9 Millennium

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Posted Oct 09 2018 - 08:21 AM

I've seen some strange physics in online races too. Things like small touches between two cars that suddenly turns them into rockets that completely destroy themselves (and sometimes others too). A few online races ago I also had a sudden engine blow-up that came out of nowhere, temperatures and oil pressure were all in the green.

These occasion have been very rare luckily.

Edited by Millennium, Oct 09 2018 - 08:23 AM.


#10 Pedro L Ramalho

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Posted Oct 09 2018 - 02:09 PM

Thank you Axel, Millennium and John. Always interested in helping.

Yes, John, iGOR was down and the race was done through VROC (this league runs on iGOR by default). I also wandered if it was something on-line related, as I tested the setup before for many many laps in a far more agressive way without blowing the engine.

Millennium, I also have seen very strange physics, online only, like the ones you describe. Another strange one that happened to me in my short 16 races experience was three races before this one, in Enna Pergusa track: some players had a simultaneous screenfreeze and at the exactly same moment my car was pulled to the interior of the corner and was impossible to get it stoped; the game didn't respond to any control, and I had to shut down GPL in task manager...

#11 Roo

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Posted Oct 21 2018 - 05:36 AM

View PostPedro L Ramalho, on Oct 08 2018 - 07:35 AM, said:

Yesterday I blew the Lotus engine at the 2nd lap of an online race (GPL Brasil, Road America track, mod 67) without ever reaching more than 9300rpm and in a moderate pace. Before that I ran the whole 30 min of qualifying in a more agressive pace (without problems here, however). My question is: does the damage model of the game ties the wear of the engine in qualifying with the wear of the engine at the beggining of the race? Or could this have been just a random blow-up?

I don't get many engine failures either against AI or online. But then I had a Lotus49 engine failure on the first lap of a recent race. Really frustrating. I put it down to missing a gear & redlining the engine briefly but who knows!?

9300rpm is stressing the dfv quite a bit imo.
max power is at 9000rpm, max torque at 7250rpm.

The engine failures can't just be random, can they? I think they must be related to what we do to the car/engine. Continually hitting curbs, brushing barriers, bump into other cars risks punctures, suspension damge etc. Over stressing a cold engine is always risky, overstressing even a warm dfv, more so.
When I go to the grid I try to warm the engine slowly, low revs while the oil temp rises, gradually building to set the redline at 9k.
Hopefully at the end of the race the redline is still where it was, usually not ;)

:2c:

#12 Lee200

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Posted Oct 21 2018 - 07:32 AM

My experience in mod development is that the engines are relatively easy to blow up when they are stone cold.  Once any amount of heat gets into them, they are much harder to blow up.  And some engines are easier to blow up than others.

So if you floor the throttle at the start of a race when the engine is cold, then that is more likely to result in an early engine failure.

#13 SV3000

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Posted Oct 21 2018 - 07:45 AM

View PostLee200, on Oct 21 2018 - 07:32 AM, said:

My experience in mod development is that the engines are relatively easy to blow up when they are stone cold.  Once any amount of heat gets into them, they are much harder to blow up.  And some engines are easier to blow up than others.

So if you floor the throttle at the start of a race when the engine is cold, then that is more likely to result in an early engine failure.
Thanks for this info, i think this explained why my car usually blows up after immediate full throttle from pit start (also had one at starting race when playing with AI recently).

#14 Cookie

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Posted Oct 21 2018 - 10:41 AM

That's why I join the grid asap in an online race and heat up my engine ;)

#15 Bo Bruce

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Posted Oct 21 2018 - 10:50 AM

Pedro-
you are  frustrated by 'random' engine blows... imagine how they felt  in the 60s' when it happened for real :o

as for league with 'less' damage, oAo has two Divisions. D1 = PRO, D2= INT with LIMITED Sh-R (only if you can make it to pits)
but you get placed in the division where you race with similar talented drivers, so we don't have run away championships :)

PM me here, i'll send details if interested.
we race alternate Saturday's... however current season is down to 2 races

#16 Michkov

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Posted Oct 22 2018 - 07:38 AM

 Bo Bruce, on Oct 21 2018 - 10:50 AM, said:

... however current season is down to 2 races

That doesn't mean we'll stop racing though, if the rumours are to be believed we'll be doing some CanAm running over the winter.

#17 Bo Bruce

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Posted Oct 22 2018 - 09:01 AM

right Michkov ;)
i failed to mention that oAo is a primarily 67 orig mod league.
tho we sometime dabble with the other mods too :D




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